Timing retard with high octane?
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Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 81
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From: Southern IL
Timing retard with high octane? Hi guys and gals, I started putting together my nitrous setup and was wondering if I need to pull timing with a stand alone fuel tank and 103? 150 shot max on a forged 383 with AFR heads. I think I am going with the Mini progressive, but thought if I spent money on stand alone I might not have to pull timing or at least not as much? I have HP tuner so I can pull a couple degrees with out and trouble, it's not a daily driver but I hate to pull 4 degrees and drive when not using the bottle. Any real world experience would be much appreciated.
Is the car tuned for 103? And I don't think you'll notice 4 degrees in the seat of the pants-o-meter but your motor will notice knock if you leave it. I'd just pull the timing.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 81
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From: Southern IL
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Best to do this. The higher octane will help you be able to run more timing, but its better to start with 2* per 50hp pulled, and tune back into, because its different with every application, depending on compressions ratios and a bunch of other variables.
Better to start safe and tune into it.
-Garrett
Better to start safe and tune into it.
-Garrett
Teching In
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103 isn't much I've been running 93 in the tank and 120+octane. I pull 3 degrees on a 100 shot and 4 degrees on the 150. Instead of your standard 2 per 50hp. But that's my setup. Every car is different. Your car might take more or less timing than mine.etc.
If a stand alone is in the budget run one. We normally run c116 or renegade 120n in the stand alone along with pump gas in the gas tank. On a 100 shot some combos end up with 0-1 pulled while others still like 4 pulled. Now the combo that still wants 3 out would have needed 2-3 more out.
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Best to do this. The higher octane will help you be able to run more timing, but its better to start with 2* per 50hp pulled, and tune back into, because its different with every application, depending on compressions ratios and a bunch of other variables.
Better to start safe and tune into it.
-Garrett
Better to start safe and tune into it.
-Garrett
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Seriously, why do you keep telling these people to pull 2 degrees per 50? You don't even know the details of the guy's engine and you're trying to give him a recipe to burn pistons. What if he's running 40 degrees of timing, and he pulls 3 degrees as you're recommending? Are you telling me that 37 degrees of timing is a safe starting point for him?
if ur questioning what to do. dont just go out and make a long full pass on the bottle. make a quick hit with a clean plug and go from there.
its basics. just a starting point. and for a small shot i dont think its gonna matter much. my car has 11* pulled for 150. thats just how it is . but i started with the basic 6* for 150.
if ur questioning what to do. dont just go out and make a long full pass on the bottle. make a quick hit with a clean plug and go from there.
if ur questioning what to do. dont just go out and make a long full pass on the bottle. make a quick hit with a clean plug and go from there.
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Seriously, why do you keep telling these people to pull 2 degrees per 50? You don't even know the details of the guy's engine and you're trying to give him a recipe to burn pistons. What if he's running 40 degrees of timing, and he pulls 3 degrees as you're recommending? Are you telling me that 37 degrees of timing is a safe starting point for him?
2* per 50hp from a factory timing perspective is very safe for what most of the racer's on here are doing with nitrous, often times more than you need retarded. With a higher compression engine, we recommend running race fuel in conjunction with pulling the recommended amount of timing, to start with, and tuning back into it.
Better to start safe.
-Garrett
Last edited by NitrousExpress; Dec 8, 2014 at 09:59 AM.
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 76
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From: STL
Hi guys and gals, I started putting together my nitrous setup and was wondering if I need to pull timing with a stand alone fuel tank and 103? 150 shot max on a forged 383 with AFR heads. I think I am going with the Mini progressive, but thought if I spent money on stand alone I might not have to pull timing or at least not as much? I have HP tuner so I can pull a couple degrees with out and trouble, it's not a daily driver but I hate to pull 4 degrees and drive when not using the bottle. Any real world experience would be much appreciated.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 81
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From: Southern IL
With the higher octane u shouldn't have too pull too much timing, but if u are running an insane amount of timing to squeeze all the hp out of your motor now, u might need to pull more out. Detonation is your enemy and that's where reading plugs come in. And not sure , but the pin 56 trick is where u can wire a resistor in and pull X amount of timing while on the kit. It's a cheap alternative to the lnc 2000. Put a colder plug in it, and sneak up on it. Make a short 1st and half 2nd gear blast and pull over and see what she's doing. Baby steps. Good luck
Like WeToddDid said the best advice is to know your total combo and give a suggested starting point for total timing , correct plug, octane, etc. You didn't say if it was carbed , fuel injected, compression, camshaft, what kit or any other details that may be important. Another thing is if you tuneup is rich it will want more timing to make it try and burn some of the extra fuel out and run halfway decent. Need to make sure you have a good clean base tuneup in the system , correct plug, gap, and safe total timing for a starting point.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Southern IL
Like WeToddDid said the best advice is to know your total combo and give a suggested starting point for total timing , correct plug, octane, etc. You didn't say if it was carbed , fuel injected, compression, camshaft, what kit or any other details that may be important. Another thing is if you tuneup is rich it will want more timing to make it try and burn some of the extra fuel out and run halfway decent. Need to make sure you have a good clean base tuneup in the system , correct plug, gap, and safe total timing for a starting point.
Thanks for any info, my first time with the GAS.
like they said every combo is different and some use a good safety rule when your new to this. I have a stand alone for my Nitrous and on the first stage I run 150hp and dont pull timing, been like that for years. would I recommend it to try? Nope! My cam has a lot of overlap and its a specific nitrous cam. Many variables to have and consider.
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 76
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From: STL
I forget of the top of my head, but I think its the red connecter for the PCM. Pull it off the PCM and look for spot 56. Should be empty. Get a pcm pin, some wire and a switch and you will be good to go. If its not the red, then its the blue, but Im almost sure its the red. Run the wire from 56, to one side of the switch and from the other side of the switch, run to ground. That's it in a nutshell
*****, I just read your sig. Car is a LT1?**
Pin 56 mod allows you to run max NA timing and then once it sees ground it will operate a custom operating system. I know EFI live supports this. Pretty much in a nutshell you have a second tune for the nitrous where it can retard timing and set your desired A/F ratio for the spray.
I forget of the top of my head, but I think its the red connecter for the PCM. Pull it off the PCM and look for spot 56. Should be empty. Get a pcm pin, some wire and a switch and you will be good to go. If its not the red, then its the blue, but Im almost sure its the red. Run the wire from 56, to one side of the switch and from the other side of the switch, run to ground. That's it in a nutshell
*****, I just read your sig. Car is a LT1?**
I forget of the top of my head, but I think its the red connecter for the PCM. Pull it off the PCM and look for spot 56. Should be empty. Get a pcm pin, some wire and a switch and you will be good to go. If its not the red, then its the blue, but Im almost sure its the red. Run the wire from 56, to one side of the switch and from the other side of the switch, run to ground. That's it in a nutshell
*****, I just read your sig. Car is a LT1?**