So it wouldn't allow me to use my nitrous with little timing or no timing pulled? I realize most people don't use it, but yet some claim ridiculous gains and benefits from it.

 

I see threads about this all the time....just pull timing and run nitrous the right way. An LNC-2000 is cheaper than a meth kit.

 

I have an LNC-2000, and I am pulling timing. If I wasn't I would've popped my engine a while ago... The idea I've seen with meth injection is that by being able to use more timing you get significant gains in power, safely. It's not that I don't want to pull timing for no reason... All the threads I've seen (none of which are recent) rave about how great it is for this reason. I'm just trying to understand more about how it works, why I should or shouldn't use it, if the benefits and possibilities are as good as some people claim, and what's the catch if there is one because I haven't found one yet. You're kind of just beating around the bush and not giving me any relevant answers or information.

 

The fact is that meth injection will allow you to run more timing period. Be it nitrous, boosted or n/a

 

What I'm saying is that you will not get the gains you think you will... Is your nitrous tune up on the ragged edge where you can't run anymore nitrous or timing? That's where water injection comes into play. To slow the burn. On a proper nitrous tune up, you've got all the octane you need, and you don't need to cool off IAT's, so the gains from water/meth are going to be minimal.
If you're not maxed out nitrous and timing wise on your current tune up, there are ways to go faster without a water/meth kit. I'd be more than happy to help!

 

Man, it's not really that cut and dry. FI setups run water/meth to lower IAT's more than anything. This allows them to advance the timing.Timing=heat. If you're running hot to begin with, you cant run a bunch of timing. See what I'm sayin? It's not an apples to apples deal on a nitrous application. Our motors aren't ingesting hot air. If we've got the proper octane for the application, we wont be able to add anymore heat(timing) than we already are.This is where WATER injection comes into play(to slow down the burn). Feel free to call the guys at alchohol injection systems and ask their opinion on it as that is who has schooled me directly on the topic.

 

My current set up is pretty maxed out as it sits on 93. I could run more nitrous but I'd need more fuel that it doesn't seem my car would be able to reliably deliver based on where things are at currently. My fuel pressure drops a good amount on the hit (been meaning to call you guys about that fuel line upgrade you sell for 5th gens). I cannot run any additional timing. Usually pull 7 degrees to be completely safe, but I can put it at 6 and get a couple degrees of knock on the initial hit that is gone in an instant. Since I'm nearing the limit in terms of fuel, I was exploring other options to make more power on the same set up and same size shot without having to do anything about fuel yet. And that's how water/meth got my attention. It also gets stupid hot and humid down where I live so it's not unusual for IATs to get a bit on the high side (usually not crazy excessive though). I could always buy a stand alone system and put some good fuel in it and that would allow me to run a bit more timing and ensure I have enough fuel to run more nitrous and be able to build my motor, ect. A stage 1 water/meth kit that most of the companies sell is significantly cheaper than a stand alone system as well so that was another reason it caught my attention. With the holidays coming around along with additional car parts needs and other obligations, if I can decent gains with one of these entry level meth kits and maybe add a little more safety with the extra cooling, then that would be much more financially do-able for me at this point in time. If you feel it's not worth it then I'll just save up for a stand alone.

 

I think it's worth it to go the dedicated fuel system route and run c16 in it.

 

It has been done. Far more have failed attempts and blown motors from trying.

IF you can find a tuner that can do it, expect to leave the car with him for a while and budget for a hurt motor in the process.

 

Alright, I'll save for a dedicated fuel system then. Brandon how effective is that fuel line upgrade for 5th gens that you guys sell? Won't be buying the stand alone system for a while but my fuel pressure is dropping on the initial hit so would this help add some cushion to my set up in the meantime? Considering I have a ZL1 pump is it still normal for pressure to drop just at the instant that the spray hits?

 

The fuel line upgrade is important due to the number of 90 degree bends in the factory fuel line. It can cause a pretty nasty lean spike and pressure drop. The upgrade we sell does a great job of alleviating this. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

Brandon is dead on.

You will not see the gains you are expecting.

I am spraying well north of 1700 pounds/hr of nitrous. 90% of the time I do not turn on the water injection.

Water and Meth injection are simply to cool the chamber. It allows more timing to be run, or in my case gives a cushion in the tuning window that can be effected by changes in weather, or I will often step up some jetting, and turn the water on in case I missed with timing.

I will say I have always gone faster with the water injection OFF and a good tune.

 

Cool I'll be putting an order in for one of those soon then. Thanks for all your help.
Yeah I understand now it's not quite as amazing as it can be made to sound in theory. Thanks for your insight on here as well as in my other thread man. I'm good with engine stuff but have never messed with power adders till recently so I got a lot of noob questions.

 

I want to bring this back up for guys like me only spraying a 50-125 dry kit.
My thoughts were with a small 75 shot that I could arm the meth/water kit at the same time as the nitrous and the difference in timing would allow me to not pull timing. the extra meth going in also should add to the air fuel ratio correct?


I Have EFI Live and can switch tunes as needed, just looking at this as an option . thanks.

 

Yes, it works just fine. Just as some here say they don't like it, there is an equal amount at the track that love it. Myself included. It's not really for extra power, it's for a tuning cushion, and engine longevity.

 

For the price of a water injection system you can get a LNC-2000 and pull your timing. Pulling the timing will be a much more efficient and consistent way to ensure your tune is good. Generally, as stated previously in the thread the only people who really benefit from running water injection are those whose tunes are on the extreme ragged edge. Also, as stated above it can be used a safety precaution depending on changes in weather when you're running a lot of PPH. For what you're wanting to do, I'd recommend just pulling a few degrees of timing and run some good gas.

 

Nothing is going to substitute for a good clean tune up...

 

 

But second reason is the octane boost. Even if i do pull timing

 

Honestly, you'd be better off running better gas if you need the octane.