Slart

Hey folks,

I'm about to build my first nitrous kit. My past motors have been NA and supercharged. One thing I've learned from my supercharging experience is if you want to get close to the limit without blowing things up, consistency is key.

For that reason, I've decided I dont want to deal with varying nitrous pressure.

So, my plan was to do a nitrogen push system (I got the idea from 383lq4ss). I've talked to the gas shop and I've asked all the questions. I feel pretty comfortable with this. My only complaint is I'd rather have the system stealth, and I cant think of where to hide the nitrogen bottle.

Just now, an alternative came to me. The nitrogen push system relies on a "single piston" regulator to regulate the nitrogen tank's pressure down from ~2500 to 1200 or so. The idea being that the pressure out of the N2o tank will always, consistently be 1200 PSI until you run out.


Now here's my question.. why can't I just ditch the nitrogen tank, use that same single piston regulator on the N2O tank to regulate it down from bottle pressure to 700 PSI?

That way I get my consistent pressure without the nitrogen bottle. Is there any reason this cant be done?

Thanks,

Steve Sadler

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

If I read this right you are wanting to run 700 psi of Nitrous pressure.It will not work correctly.On a nitrous system the nitrous needs to be of atleast 950 psi in order to flow correctly.
Dave

antz01ta

iTrader: (3)

you cant use the same regulator to do this, it will not regulate liquid, only gas. i spray at 1150 psi. use a NX pressure regulated heater and your pressure will stay stable.

Fast94bird

Steve to start with nitogen has a much higher pressure to start with then nitrous. Pusher type systems have been around for years with 2 drawbacks they keep the pressure constant and you have to empty the bottle completely before refilling. The small amount of pressure drop seen in a standard kits would only be between 50-100 psi... If a pusher system is what you are going to run get with dave and let him know that you want the hem 45' valve from NX. It has 2 ports cast into the valve, and one of those can be used for a pusher system.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

Steve!?!? Whats up man. I got your email a while back...wrote a big long reply of whats new and my new setup. Tried to send it and my computer crashed.

Anyways. A few things have changed on my setup. And I think you may be able to adapt it to what you are looking for.

My new setup is much simpler and easier to operate. Still has the nitrous bottle, still has the nitrogen bottle. But there is no regulator now.
in Place of the regulator I bought a Dedenbear 3000 PSI C02 noid (in Jegs for $110) and an adjustable pressure switch from Dynotune.org (like $50).

The Dedenbear noid goes in between the nitrogen valve and the nitrogen "in" on the nitrous bottle valve. The pressure switch is installed in one of the other open ports on the NOS superhighflow valve. Have power go to an arming switch, to the pressure switch and then to the Dedenbear noid and then to ground. Set pressure switch to 950 psi (or desired PSI) and arm the system. If the nitrous bottle is below the set 950 psi it will open the dedenbear noid and allow nitrogen to bring up the pressure right to 950 psi. At 950 the pressure switch opens....closing the Dedenbear noid. As soon as you begin spraying and pressure drops below about 925 (the pressure switch has a small open/close window) the noid will open, etc etc. If you use a ball valve or other high flow valve for the nitrogen "in" the pressure recovery is very fast. Depending on the shot size it will actually "pulse" the system on and off maintianing 925-950 psi.

To be stealth you could adapt this sytem in a few ways for you. Easiest would be to just use another Blue NOS or matching nitrous bottle for you nitrogen tank. No one would really know you had nitrogen...they would just think it was a dual tank setup.

Second would be to use this exact setup but with another Nitrous bottle filled with nitrous in place of nitrogen. You would have to heat the crap out of that bottle to keep the pressure up though.

Here are a few pics of my setup. Its tough to see the Dedenbear noid...its right in the middle between the bottles.

Slart

Hey bro, nice to hear from ya! I figured I had an invalid email addrss for you.

Thanks for the info on your new setup. It seems pretty neat, but what is the advantage over your old setup? You mention it's easier to operate. What were the problems with operating the old setup? Was it just getting it reattached when you changed bottles, or is there more?

I'm a little nervous about the reliability of the deadenbear nitrous feed solenoid. Have you seen any hint of trouble? I am worried if it stuck open that it would be a very bad thing.


I dont really want the kit "stealth" so much, as I want to keep the car usable. It's my daily driver and it doesnt have enough cargo space for my taste to begin with. Your system, while beautiful and impressive, would be pretty impractical for me. Originally when I was just going to have a nitrous bottle, I was going to put it in the spare tire well so I wouldnt lose anything, but when you add a nitrogen bottle to the mix now I think I'm stuck losing space one way or another.

On top of it, I'm giving some thought to propane injection.. 3 bottles? ugh..

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

The benifits of the new setup is you just flip a switch to get the set pressure and maintain that pressure. Whith the old regulator pressure would creep on occasion then you had to climb back there and back off the regulator a bit. It was also hard to hit the exact pressure evrytime. My regulator was not all that accurate. Also the recovery time was a bit slower with a regulator since nitrogen going through the regulator had low flow.

As far as Dedenbear noid failure...you have to account for that as a possibilty in determining how much psi you put in the nitrogen bottle. I usually use about 2200 psi in the nitrogen bottle. That way...with 950 or so to start in the nitrous bottle...if the noid where to fail I would only get about 1600 psi or so once they equalized. Not even enough to blow the blow off fitting. But 2200 psi will aslo drive the entire contents out of the nitrous bottle maintaining a min of 1100 psi.

Its gonna be tough to find a way to do what you want in that small space. The key to the consistancy is having enough pressure differntial between the two that the system can act fast enough to maintian the pressure nearly instantly.

Good luck and be sure to let us know what you come up with.

red ws6 99

You can also use a positive displacement pump (scroll or piston). MSD has been (or at least was at one time) working on a system for a few years. Not to hard to setup if it is a custom setup.

Gary

taqwache

Allen, what kind of valve do you use to get the nitrogen into the nitrous tank? i noticed that you didn't just tap the bottle. also where did you get it and how much does it cost?

Slart

>The benifits of the new setup is you just flip a switch to get the set pressure and maintain that pressure. Whith the old regulator pressure would creep on occasion then you had to climb back there and back off the regulator a bit. It was also hard to hit the exact pressure evrytime.
My regulator was not all that accurate. Also the recovery time was a bit slower with a regulator since nitrogen going through the regulator had low flow.

Jeez, I'm glad you chimed in. Sounds like there were a lot of deficiencies in the old setup that I would've have expected. I see why you switched.

> As far as Dedenbear noid failure...you have to account for that as a possibilty in determining how much psi you put in the nitrogen bottle. I usually use about 2200 psi in the nitrogen bottle. That way...with 950 or so to start in the nitrous bottle...if the noid where to fail I would only get about 1600 psi or so once they equalized.

Wouldnt this depend on how full the nitrous bottle was? If it was nearly empty then the pressure after failure would be down near 1100, but if it was nearly full it would be closer to 2200?

>The key to the consistancy is having enough pressure differntial between the two that the system can act fast enough to maintian the pressure nearly instantly.

I see, so when your nitrous bottle is nearly empty, and your nitrogen bottle is down near 1100 PSI, you've still got 250 PSI of differential. Is this enough to do the trick, or does it start to run funny when the bottle is nearly empty?

Slart

Gary,

I'm not following you. Would you care to elaborate?

Would the pump be connected to the nitrous inlet, in order to generate 1100 PSI at it's inlet, or would it be at the outlet, acting as a regulator?

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

When the 15 lb nitrous bottle has 15 lbs of nitrous in it the liquid (uncompressable) volume is only a lilttle more than half maybe 2/3. So the rest of the volume can be shared with the nitrogen. If you have a cylinder (the top of the nitrous bottle)that is 1/3 the volume of the nitrogen cylinder...and its at 900 psi and the nitrogen cylinder noid fails and dumps the 2200 psi into that nitrous cylinder the pressure should equalize somewhere around 1600 psi off the top of my head. Either way...the pressure of of either cylinder will not exceed 2200 psi...most blowdown fittings are rated over that. and most bottles are rated well over that.