unit213

mrr23 - They are your cars. Do as you please.

UL LOSE

You must be in a good mood today UNIT! lol

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

exactly. which is why i said this.

TN94Z

iTrader: (14)

I have mine coming in at 2800 from start to finish with the 10 bolt. That has seemed to work the best for me

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

i must be a real jackass not spraying untill 4K rpms ........

maybe it has something to do with my yank 4000 convertor?

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

no worse than me being called stupid for hitting it at 2000 rpms. come on now, i have a yank 3400 and i still hit it at 2k. if it can hold it, do it.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

Mrr23....your spraying at 2200 but all thats happening is its just gonne get up on your stall rpm very quickly. Its unlikely you have hardly any load when it hits at 2200. And you may be launching over 2200 anyways not ever really seeing the spray hit exactly at 2200. So in your scenario your likely going to be a safe range anyways.
I dont like to be limited by "general rules" like NEVER spray less than 3000. We all know if you dot your I's and cross your T's you can go lower than 3000 depending on shot size and other circumstances. You just have to be very very careful when you beging to lower the rpm. The cylinder pressure rise very quickly as you lower rpm.

In a 6 speed cruising at 2200 rpm and nailing a 150+ shot wet is a disaster waiting to happen. It would be equal to spraying a 300 at 4400 rpm or a 450 shot at 6600 rpm. So just BE CAREFUL.

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

here' let's try to clarify the whole 2000 rpms thing. i think i see where our difference is on the subject. when i say i'm hitting it at 2000ish rpms, i mean in first gear. and that;s in both cars. the wife's has a stock converter in it. and we know the stock stall is what, about 1100 rpms?

if you are refering to 6th gear at 2200 rpms, then yes, something real bad is about to happen. but, first gear at 2200 rpms, then nothing bad will happen (well maybe tire wear ) as with any mods you do to your car, ALWAYS BE CAREFUL.

tell you what, all this talk about the torque output at 2000 rpms is getting to me. we're all guessing it's over 700 lbs-ft. one thing to consider is dynos are done in third gear. when racing, you'll never see 2000 rpms in 3rd gear. the rpm drop goes to about 4000 rpms. so, a car club i'm in has a dyno day coming up aug 6th. i'm going to do a 1st gear run and hit it at 2000 rpms just like at the track. then we'll see exactly what the torque output is. time to find out instead of just guessing. so, i'll man up and do the test to finally get the guessing out of the way and have facts to base conversations on.

we all know that when you dyno in a lower gear, the numbers will be lower. here's two dyno's i did. first one 2nd gear. second one third gear. same day. see the number difference? of course, these are NA runs. now, the torque valvuse for the 2nd gear run are higher due to the unique ability to start the run at 15 mph. in 2000, you could put the selector in 2 and engage the 2nd gear start function. i did some dynoing in 2nd gear until i figured out that's what was causing my band to fail twice. so, no more 2nd gear start dynos. kinda getting tired of pulling the trans to put another one in for the sake of car science . so, to be fair, compare the two runs starting at 3200 rpms.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

Listen....you are getting away with what you are doing because of the way your setup is. Mostly due to your stall rpm.

The main point I am trying to make is for you NOT to go around in every post and say "yeah...just go ahead and spray a 175 shot at 2000 rpms...youll be fine"
Because that is not a true statement....so please dont do it. You are basically getting lucky on accident due to your setup. Go ahead and make some changes and you may not be so lucky...go ahead and try some different launch techniques and you may not be so lucky.

I am not refering to spraying in 6th gear. I am refering to spraying anytime there is a serious load at 2000 rpms with a large shot of 100+. I have seen a few of your dyno graphs on spray when you said you were supposedly spraying at 2200 rpm and it didnt seem to be kicking in until well after that. I want to see that huge TQ spike begin climbing at 2000 rpm like you say you are doing....show me that...and Ill show you some blown head gaskets

NOTFAST

iTrader: (10)

exactly...you can set your lower RPM range to be 1000, but if you come off the line at 3k, and never go below 3k throughout the race, it doesnt matter whether your lower RPM range is 800, 1500, or 3k....

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

you just don't get it. i have two cars.

car #1 99 formula has a STOCK converter in it. i spray 175 on it at 2000 rpms.

car #2 00 formula has a 3400 converter. even before the converter, i sprayed 200 at 2000 rpms in 1st gear. now, i have the covnerter and still do it.

how about you stop telling everyone not to. i don't get lucky on accident. i guess you don't remember that dynos are done in 3rd gear at 3200 rpms to prevent downshifting in an auto huh???? i've hit it as low as 1500 rpms. i spun the tires really bad. so, can't hit it then. the earliest i've been able to hit it is 1800 rpms without spinning.

tell you what, on the car club's dyno day, i'm going to hit it at 2000 rpms in 1st gear just like i said. you are welcome to come and watch. then come and show me some blown head gaskets. i'm going to out this myth to rest. and like i said in another thread, come to bradenton when i'm there and watch for yourself. you keep saying i don't. i keep saying i do. you aren't there. better yet, how about i come over to st pete and have you in the passenger seat when i do it? up to you. either way, there will be a dyno sheet come august 6th.


NOTFAST - i come off the line at idle. i do not stall up on the converter. dead idle, floor it off the line. when rpms reach 2000 i flip the switch. now, there can be some variance on the exact rpms. within 200 rpms.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

Im not telling anyone what to do. I am just pointing out you have no clue. So eveyone who reads this please take what Mrr23 has to say with a giant grain of salt and please form you own opinions. If you guys want to spray 175 shot at 1800 rpms ...be my guest. And yes...I want to see full activation of your 175 shot at 2000 rpms. meaning peak TQ at 2000-2200 rpms and tapering off from that point on with a 175 shot and a 175 hp gain over your NA graph (roughly) You do that...and you aint gonna last long.

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

not telling anyone what to do huh? right out of this thread.


so, august 6th you'll be at the dyno day??? ah, you won't show. or should i wander over to revextreme to make it more believable to you? i've been doing this to both cars for about a year now. and this is my 5th car on the bottle with three of them being LS1s. all this over the course of 10 years.

another thing, my ratings are at motor, not rear wheel. the 200 on the 00 formula put 150 to the wheels. so, you won't be seeing 175rwhp from my 175 shot. another thing you might want to think about. not all kits are measured at rear wheels. both compucar and nytrex rate at motor.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

Look... You want to take chances and go right ahead. What you are doing is foolish...and your getting lucky. I think you probably havent actually hit the nitrous at as low an rpm as you think since the tach lags so bad or the shot size you state is not near what it is...either way your getting by...so far.

And lets face it...your ET's and MPH do not reflect the large shots and hard launches I would expect from what you say you are doing. Something else is going on that is saving you...for now.

What I wont allow you to do is come in this forum and spout this stuff off as fact as a safe practice...because its not. Different combos would NOT live under the curcumstances you describe. Especially manual cars.

I would like to see the results of the test. I would like to see full tq at as low an rpm as you think you can get away with. Please post the graph.

Where is this dyno day? If its at RX I may head up there.

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

all you do is come in here and demand they do not do it under any circumstance. what makes you right and me wrong? i'm not the only one that does it. what do you say to the ones that are doing 250-300 on a stock bottom end? i don't see you telling them not to do that. you say it's not safe. i counter that with two cars i do it to. and i'm not the only one that does it. but here's another thing, is using n2o safe at all? at any one time, something bad can happen which will destroy a motor. even NA motors. you play, you pay. don't come in here telling everyone i'm not doing what i say i do unless you can prove it.


the dyno day is over her in orlando at corvette masters. the same one the last graph i posted is from.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

What makes me right and you wrong?? Because your WRONG! lol.

Who sais you cant run a 250 shot on a stock bottom end? I have setup kits that have sprayed up to 260+ shot ontop of heads and cam for a totla of 680 rwhp on a stock bottom among other setups.

Anyways...there is a reason manufacturers give the general rule of 3000 rpm. Its because they know that as rpm decreases cylinder pressure increase. Is 3000 rpm safe and 2999 not safe?? of course not. There is a sliding scale on what you could possibly get away with and what will definately do damage. As you start to decrease your rpm and increase your shot size you are headed towards greater likelyhood of damage. Where that magical point is will not be known until you actually cross that point. Of course we dont want to go there. Most people here dont want to even come close. So we set the "buffer" in place with enough space to keep us safe in the event of an odd occurance or mishap. You have taken that buffer away and may be RIGHT on the brink...who knows. I still dont think you are spraying as much as you think or arent spraying at the actual rpm you think. Regardless...most people and manufacturs want that "buffer" in place and are not comfortable operating like that. So please dont make it sound as if what you are doing is perfectly safe and could never lead to any ill effects. I guarentee you if NX, NOS, TNT and every other nitrous company came out tommorrow and lowered thier recomended activation point o 1800 rpm for 75-175 shots you would see a DRASTIC rise in mishaps and blown motors. I gaurentee that.

So please refrain from trying to talk others into doing what you are doing as a safe practice.

red90cobra

iTrader: (36)

Boom!!!!

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

ah yes, i forgot, your the only one that knows better. hmmm, come up with a better reason than that. cylinder pressures, i'll agree with. but, you can counter that with less timing and more fuel.

then stop talking them out of it. i never said it was completely safe. but you make it sound like if you do, it'll come apart the first time you try it. it's safer than what you make it out to be. some of us have bigger ***** and are innovators. if they can't afford to play, they shouldn't have put the bottle on.

manufacturers set 'buffers' to cover their ***. that is all. it's the legal way out. wonder what they said to the first person to ever try it? it was a belief the world was flat until christopher columbus proved otherwise.

so, keep your head in the sand and be safe. meanwhile, i'll keep pushing the envelope.

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

what does 76/43 equate to? that's what i'm using for a 200 shot compucar told me 75/45.

what does 73/40 equate to? that's what i'm using for a 175ish shot. nytrex says 73/36 for a 200 and 67/35 for a 175.

if they are lying to me, i'll sue them for false advertisement on ratings at the motor.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

hahaha...right...I have my head in the sand....and your an "innovator" gotcha.

If you think reducing timing and adding fuel is gonna kill the massive increases of cylinder pressure of spraying a 175 shot at 1800 rpms you have alot more to learn. If you need to reduce timing so much that it lowers power...your doing it all assbackwards. Why wouldnt you lower the shot size? Use staged shots by rpm? A progressive controller?

You have no clue about pushing the envelope and innovating. You are running mid 11s on a 175 shot and hardly cracking 120 mph????