The Most A Stock LS1 Can Take...
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 227
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From: Mechanicsville, VA
The Most A Stock LS1 Can Take... Ok, I'm not a newb to nitrous, but I am to the LS1. I've seen a bunch of guy the "Racing Section" of this site (particularly the 9-10sec Sections) that claim to run 250+shots on "stock" bottom ends. Can this be done?
I had a pieced together BS kit on my '96 LT1 car in sig and ran a 150shot for over a year with stock everything (yes even plugs/wires) with noo problems whatsoever.
I was thinking of trying to run a 175-200shot on my TA in sig (current ride) with everything else pretty much stock (as far as bolt-ons go).
I had a set-up in mind but was wondering about the method. In all my looking I haven't found anyone that makes a "plate" set-up for these cars. Is that right?? Aside from DP (too $$ for me), that would only leave me with some sort of fogger set-up. I was thinking- 1-2gallon cell, aeromotive pump, and a dual fogger set-up, unless anyone has any other suggestions.
So does this sound feasable for a stock LS1???
Jon
I had a pieced together BS kit on my '96 LT1 car in sig and ran a 150shot for over a year with stock everything (yes even plugs/wires) with noo problems whatsoever.
I was thinking of trying to run a 175-200shot on my TA in sig (current ride) with everything else pretty much stock (as far as bolt-ons go).
I had a set-up in mind but was wondering about the method. In all my looking I haven't found anyone that makes a "plate" set-up for these cars. Is that right?? Aside from DP (too $$ for me), that would only leave me with some sort of fogger set-up. I was thinking- 1-2gallon cell, aeromotive pump, and a dual fogger set-up, unless anyone has any other suggestions.
So does this sound feasable for a stock LS1???
Jon
I rec on a big shot on stock bottom end to do a dual stage or progressive. What this does is split the massive torque spike up. Your motor will last longer if you do this. It's how I do it on a stock bottom end, as I want mine to last. There are guys spraying 200+ hits outa the hole, but how long they'll last is debatable. Also, a first gear lock out for second stg is benificial.
Robert
Robert
I have been running a wet NX 150shot and it is holding up just fine. The only thing that I have done to help w/ safety is changed to non platinum plugs and closed up my spark gap a little bit.
Hey Jon,
Sure a 250+ shot can be done on a stock bottom end. If done right it can last for a while too (dual stages & progressive controllers help a lot), but at that point you're really starting to push the motor. It could last for a season or it might only make a few passes. As far as your plan of a 175 - 200 shot, no real problems doing that. Do you plan on doing long tubes or even a cam? A standalone fuel system is a good idea. You could do a single in tank (Racetronix kit) and be good up to 600 ish. The only drawback to that is if you want to run a higher octane fuel for the nitrous. If that's the case going with a standalone would be a better idea. Make sure your tune is real good and pull a few degrees of timing. If you are looking for an inexpensive quality direct port or a single/dual nozzle set up give our site a look at. Feel free to contact us with any questions you have.
Matt
Sure a 250+ shot can be done on a stock bottom end. If done right it can last for a while too (dual stages & progressive controllers help a lot), but at that point you're really starting to push the motor. It could last for a season or it might only make a few passes. As far as your plan of a 175 - 200 shot, no real problems doing that. Do you plan on doing long tubes or even a cam? A standalone fuel system is a good idea. You could do a single in tank (Racetronix kit) and be good up to 600 ish. The only drawback to that is if you want to run a higher octane fuel for the nitrous. If that's the case going with a standalone would be a better idea. Make sure your tune is real good and pull a few degrees of timing. If you are looking for an inexpensive quality direct port or a single/dual nozzle set up give our site a look at. Feel free to contact us with any questions you have.
Matt
I'm up to a 2 stage 225 shot (approximatly at the crank). I run a safe tune, along with a 93/104 mix. Been spraying a 150rwhp shot for the past 3 years too with no motor issues.
Originally Posted by GM Muscle
I'm up to a 2 stage 225 shot (approximatly at the crank). I run a safe tune, along with a 93/104 mix. Been spraying a 150rwhp shot for the past 3 years too with no motor issues.
11 & 7 Second Clubs
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,299
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From: Motorhome, Freeways, Truckstops, Pits
Yes, turn the timing back to 16 degrees of spark advance and it will last indefintely.
Originally Posted by COMNBYU
Ok, I'm not a newb to nitrous, but I am to the LS1. I've seen a bunch of guy the "Racing Section" of this site (particularly the 9-10sec Sections) that claim to run 250+shots on "stock" bottom ends. Can this be done?
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Originally Posted by 86 IROC
It looks like you're running a dry kit, and then a dual nozzle wet kit? Would like to know more... if you don't mind sharing.
11 & 7 Second Clubs
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,299
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From: Motorhome, Freeways, Truckstops, Pits
I am referring to 16 degreees final (at higher rpms), but it is basically impossible to fully describe a timing curve/table in writing or in this post.
Originally Posted by Somebody09
So wait, this is 16° final? Or subtract 16° from what it is stock?
Cut-n-paste works for me... a known good,
no go boom table or three would be worth
collecting.
no go boom table or three would be worth
collecting.
Originally Posted by bickelfirebird
I am referring to 16 degreees final (at higher rpms), but it is basically impossible to fully describe a timing curve/table in writing or in this post.
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 227
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From: Mechanicsville, VA
So was I correct in thinking that no one makes a plate for these cars?? Aside from the BBK TB with the "built in" set-up. There are a few companies that make plates for LT1's, that's what I was hoping to find. Never been a big fan of foggers but if that's what I have to go with then that's what I'll do...
Jon
Jon
Originally Posted by COMNBYU
So was I correct in thinking that no one makes a plate for these cars?? Aside from the BBK TB with the "built in" set-up. There are a few companies that make plates for LT1's, that's what I was hoping to find. Never been a big fan of foggers but if that's what I have to go with then that's what I'll do...
Jon
Jon
Slot Car makes LS1 plates. And NOS has some kind of plate set up that is just coming out of development.
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
From: Mechanicsville, VA
Originally Posted by GM Muscle
Slot Car makes LS1 plates. And NOS has some kind of plate set up that is just coming out of development.
Slot Car??? Link please. Never heard of them...
Oh, and thanks!
Jon
Originally Posted by COMNBYU
Slot Car??? Link please. Never heard of them...
Oh, and thanks!
Jon
Oh, and thanks!
Jon
SDB "try a 300 shot, if it blow the motor, then back it down to 250...."
JK
Too funny! Sounds like my normal torque specs... "Tighten it up till it strips then back off a quarter turn".
JK
Too funny! Sounds like my normal torque specs... "Tighten it up till it strips then back off a quarter turn".
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
Cut-n-paste works for me... a known good,
no go boom table or three would be worth
collecting.
no go boom table or three would be worth
collecting.
It seems to be working, but, I have been side tracked with drivetrain upgrades and haven't had a chance to fully test this completely. Thanks,
Robert
This seems like it "should" work, but I question the
responsiveness of the IAT sensor to actual air temp
steps. Seems like the thermal time constant will make
the enrichment roll on slow; how slow, is too slow?
And of course this is a problem even with the 85mm
MAFs that have close-coupled (in-throat) thermistors.
The way some lids have the IAT off in a corner, you
really have to wonder how well (or whether) it will
track. How many frames does it take, from start of
spray to where IAT has reached its lower, stable
value again?
But there is also the idea of using a relay and resistor
to jack the IAT all the way over to -40F readings,
and then you have a free hand with fuel and spark
using that never-seen (for us folks south of the
Arctic Circle) column in the PE - Add vs IAT table
and the leftmost (14F) column in the IAT spark
adder as well. Though I guess the common thing
is just to hit the spark table in rows above the max
NA g/cyl seen, with some reduction.
From the Helm book it looks like you would want
a 100Kohm resistor, with a normally-closed relay
across it, coil driven by your 'noid line and the
shunted resistor put inline with the IAT sensor
signal wire. When the relay energizes 100Kohms
will be added to the IAT reading.
I know there are table(s) that index off both IAT
and ECT, such as the closed loop enable threshold.
You might find some second-order effects to chase
down using this scheme. But I think it's as close to
a "magic button" for the software to see, as you
can get.
This is about $5 worth of Radio Shack parts. Less
if you hoard the right junk. Maybe $8 if you put it
in a pretty little project box.
responsiveness of the IAT sensor to actual air temp
steps. Seems like the thermal time constant will make
the enrichment roll on slow; how slow, is too slow?
And of course this is a problem even with the 85mm
MAFs that have close-coupled (in-throat) thermistors.
The way some lids have the IAT off in a corner, you
really have to wonder how well (or whether) it will
track. How many frames does it take, from start of
spray to where IAT has reached its lower, stable
value again?
But there is also the idea of using a relay and resistor
to jack the IAT all the way over to -40F readings,
and then you have a free hand with fuel and spark
using that never-seen (for us folks south of the
Arctic Circle) column in the PE - Add vs IAT table
and the leftmost (14F) column in the IAT spark
adder as well. Though I guess the common thing
is just to hit the spark table in rows above the max
NA g/cyl seen, with some reduction.
From the Helm book it looks like you would want
a 100Kohm resistor, with a normally-closed relay
across it, coil driven by your 'noid line and the
shunted resistor put inline with the IAT sensor
signal wire. When the relay energizes 100Kohms
will be added to the IAT reading.
I know there are table(s) that index off both IAT
and ECT, such as the closed loop enable threshold.
You might find some second-order effects to chase
down using this scheme. But I think it's as close to
a "magic button" for the software to see, as you
can get.
This is about $5 worth of Radio Shack parts. Less
if you hoard the right junk. Maybe $8 if you put it
in a pretty little project box.