200 shot and timing
Originally Posted by tuff
Reading a plug means you have to shut the car down in the big end.Not so easy for some people.
Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
That I know, not so sure what to look for though after I pull 'em. Also kind of scared to shut her down on the big end and lose my power breaks at the speeds i'm gonna be goin, hehe!
Originally Posted by tuff
Reading plugs is not easy.Everybody that ive talked to looks at somthing diffrent.But if i put everybodys input together i think i have a good bass line what to look for.For starters a grey plug color,and look at the electrode band that raps to the threads,there you will have a heat band on the electrode strap and rule of thumb you want it to stay about 1/8in for threads.Next thing your going to look for dentenion on the porclen <spelling? Look at the white part of the plug and look for tiny black specs on the porslen,look close because there small.Black specs is dentinion not good.Im sure there are other way people read plugs but what i explaned is the way im doing it.And still learning.
Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
Cool, i'll have to look up on it more and learn how it's done, by the way, nice best 60' dude!!!!
GOTTA LOVE NITROUS!!!
Originally Posted by tuff
Two 1.26 60ft and a 1.27 and one 1.29 for the day.I think im on the right track.Still full leather interior with roll bar!!!
GOTTA LOVE NITROUS!!!
GOTTA LOVE NITROUS!!!
Originally Posted by Patrick G
I think some of you think that you want as much timing as the motor can take before detonating to make the most power on the spray. This is simply not true. Because nitrous burns so much faster than fuel/air alone, your optimum point of ignition lead will be a lot less.
Internal combustion engines make peak combustion pressure at about 15 degrees ATDC. In a naturally aspirated engine, we move the ignition timing to allow enough lead to give the burn peak pressure at 15 degrees ATDC. If you have 30 degrees of advance to make best power with your NA motor, that means it takes about 45 degrees for the combustion process to reach it's peak pressure.
When you add a 200 shot of nitrous, your burn rate is a lot faster. Probably only 33-37 degrees of rotation to reach peak combustion pressure. If you don't retard the timing, your peak combustion pressure will occur at 3-7 degrees ATDC. This is way before the sweet spot. The piston doesn't have as much leverage on the crank at 3 degrees ATDC as it does at 15 degrees. If you don't retard your timing, it's costing you power PERIOD! Don't think it's just about avoiding detontation.
One of the reasons detonation occurs is if you get peak cylinder pressure at TDC, the piston is deadlocked. Guess what happens? Major damage! Retard that timing on the juice and watch your power increase!
Internal combustion engines make peak combustion pressure at about 15 degrees ATDC. In a naturally aspirated engine, we move the ignition timing to allow enough lead to give the burn peak pressure at 15 degrees ATDC. If you have 30 degrees of advance to make best power with your NA motor, that means it takes about 45 degrees for the combustion process to reach it's peak pressure.
When you add a 200 shot of nitrous, your burn rate is a lot faster. Probably only 33-37 degrees of rotation to reach peak combustion pressure. If you don't retard the timing, your peak combustion pressure will occur at 3-7 degrees ATDC. This is way before the sweet spot. The piston doesn't have as much leverage on the crank at 3 degrees ATDC as it does at 15 degrees. If you don't retard your timing, it's costing you power PERIOD! Don't think it's just about avoiding detontation.
One of the reasons detonation occurs is if you get peak cylinder pressure at TDC, the piston is deadlocked. Guess what happens? Major damage! Retard that timing on the juice and watch your power increase!
Robert
For the guys talking about reading plugs, yea that's a good way to see for sure. When I first got into n2o there was no WB or dyno tuning, just plugs. We have a recident plug reader who is very good, Cat3, but hasn't been around lately. Here is a good plug reading link to help sort things out.
Plug Reading
I forgot to mention, along with my WB, I also use HP Tuners and log fuel pressure and nitrous pressure to help get my n2o right on.
Robert
Plug Reading
I forgot to mention, along with my WB, I also use HP Tuners and log fuel pressure and nitrous pressure to help get my n2o right on.
Robert
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From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
Ok, probably a dumb question, but what do I look for when reading the plugs, cuz I have no clue, never done it before, so what should they look like if everything is runnin perfect? And what are bad signs? 
Your best bet is to look at who is going fast with N20 in your area and find out who is doing their tuning. Non-Personal N20 tune-ups are difficult. There are so many variables to consider once you start really leaning on your system that it's nearly impossible to do correctly.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by Robert56
For the guys talking about reading plugs, yea that's a good way to see for sure. When I first got into n2o there was no WB or dyno tuning, just plugs. We have a recident plug reader who is very good, Cat3, but hasn't been around lately. Here is a good plug reading link to help sort things out.
Plug Reading
I forgot to mention, along with my WB, I also use HP Tuners and log fuel pressure and nitrous pressure to help get my n2o right on.
Robert
Plug Reading
I forgot to mention, along with my WB, I also use HP Tuners and log fuel pressure and nitrous pressure to help get my n2o right on.
Robert
Larry's write-up on plug reading is a great place to start. The only problem is that that particular write-up is for tuning N/A setups. And as I said earlier, tuning N20 and tuning N/A are totally different animals. You cannot run the same mixture and you absolutely cannot follow the heat-range recommendations.
When applied in large doses (250 and up IMO) nitrous can be a great thing, but it can go so wrong so fast. You'll be left in the pits all by yourself with half of your pistons taking a bath in the oil pan.
Originally Posted by Ben R
Larry's write-up on plug reading is a great place to start. The only problem is that that particular write-up is for tuning N/A setups. And as I said earlier, tuning N20 and tuning N/A are totally different animals. You cannot run the same mixture and you absolutely cannot follow the heat-range recommendations.
When applied in large doses (250 and up IMO) nitrous can be a great thing, but it can go so wrong so fast. You'll be left in the pits all by yourself with half of your pistons taking a bath in the oil pan.
When applied in large doses (250 and up IMO) nitrous can be a great thing, but it can go so wrong so fast. You'll be left in the pits all by yourself with half of your pistons taking a bath in the oil pan.
Originally Posted by Ben R
Every tuner has a slightly different idea (Although you would be supprised how close the tune-ups end up) of what the 'perfect plug' looks like. Some tuners will run a leaner mixture and go easy on the timing while others will run the mixture fatter and really put some heat into the chamber. While there are two ways to skin a cat, I believe one way is better than the other.
Your best bet is to look at who is going fast with N20 in your area and find out who is doing their tuning. Non-Personal N20 tune-ups are difficult. There are so many variables to consider once you start really leaning on your system that it's nearly impossible to do correctly.
Your best bet is to look at who is going fast with N20 in your area and find out who is doing their tuning. Non-Personal N20 tune-ups are difficult. There are so many variables to consider once you start really leaning on your system that it's nearly impossible to do correctly.
Basically a really expensive dyno session! I talked to the shop who set it up cuz i'm friendly with them and explained what happened and they're tryin to get me some of my money back. But he didn't do any plug reading, just a/f on the dyno, and I have only one driveability issue, for some reason after a wot blast the idle hangs up around 2000 till you shut the car off for like 30 seconds, then when you turn it back on it's fine and he saw it do that on the dyno and tried too fix it and couldn't and basically told me he didn't know how and maybe it's just gonna be like that b/c of how large the cam is, that's bullshit! So i'm going to continue to do my own tuning and figured i'd just do some more research to make sure i'm doin everything right! That would suck to pay a tuner to make a couple pulls on the dyno and say its mint and take it to the track for a melt down.ld just recomened making baby steps on tuning and as you learn step up your tuneup.Trust me i hurt my stuff once last year (lack of octane)but i also learned alot last year.Im probley one of the few guys that don't count on a speed shop for tuning.Im also very agressive when it comes to tuning.
Originally Posted by tuff
That would suck to pay a tuner to make a couple pulls on the dyno and say its mint and take it to the track for a melt down.ld just recomened making baby steps on tuning and as you learn step up your tuneup.Trust me i hurt my stuff once last year (lack of octane)but i also learned alot last year.Im probley one of the few guys that don't count on a speed shop for tuning.Im also very agressive when it comes to tuning.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
Well the only guy in my area that's goin real fast on nitrous is Eric (Next) and Norris does his tuning, so I figured i'd give Norris a shot and I just won't comment on what I thought of him cuz it's too vulgar, hehe!!! Basically the guy puts my car on the dyno (i've done all my own tuning, but figured when I went to the big shot I didn't trust my skills and should have a professional do it and boy was I wrong), makes a few pulls and tells me my tune is perfect and still charges me full price!!! Basically a really expensive dyno session! I talked to the shop who set it up cuz i'm friendly with them and explained what happened and they're tryin to get me some of my money back. But he didn't do any plug reading, just a/f on the dyno, and I have only one driveability issue, for some reason after a wot blast the idle hangs up around 2000 till you shut the car off for like 30 seconds, then when you turn it back on it's fine and he saw it do that on the dyno and tried too fix it and couldn't and basically told me he didn't know how and maybe it's just gonna be like that b/c of how large the cam is, that's bullshit! So i'm going to continue to do my own tuning and figured i'd just do some more research to make sure i'm doin everything right!
Basically a really expensive dyno session! I talked to the shop who set it up cuz i'm friendly with them and explained what happened and they're tryin to get me some of my money back. But he didn't do any plug reading, just a/f on the dyno, and I have only one driveability issue, for some reason after a wot blast the idle hangs up around 2000 till you shut the car off for like 30 seconds, then when you turn it back on it's fine and he saw it do that on the dyno and tried too fix it and couldn't and basically told me he didn't know how and maybe it's just gonna be like that b/c of how large the cam is, that's bullshit! So i'm going to continue to do my own tuning and figured i'd just do some more research to make sure i'm doin everything right!I would be willing to work with you if you'd like. PM me if you're interested.
I would start with good octane and once you have made a few passes safely then try mix your gas its kinda stupid to spend big bucks on a motor and burn it cause you did not have enough octane . I know some of the faster guys and none of them run 93 octane you have too much to lose, whats its cost for pistons and head gaskets to fix it once its burned up .I will tell ya spraying thru the manifold is not the way to go you need a direct port so you can tune every cylinder, running that much nitrous thru mainfold your asking for trouble imho .
