200 shot and timing
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Launching!
Joined: Sep 2004
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200 shot and timing I am going to the dyno tomorrow and I am going to be spraying a 200 shot on a builr bottom end. I have 1/2 tank of 114 gas. I don't have a controller for timing, so I will just go into the computer and pull it out. How much timing should I be running at wot? Also, will pulling out the time be safe and give me more power, or will it just give me more power if I have detonation?
Don't you want to pull 2-3 degrees for every 50 shot? If so, then you'll want to pull 8-12 degrees. If you're at 28 degrees N/A, then that would mean 16-20 degrees right?
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Don't you want to pull 2-3 degrees for every 50 shot? If so, then you'll want to pull 8-12 degrees. If you're at 28 degrees N/A, then that would mean 16-20 degrees right?
Robert
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Originally Posted by rg42284
Sorry to hijack the thread but
with a 150-200 wet shot and 22-24 degrees of timing, would a 50/50 mix of 91 octane and 100 octane be enough?
with a 150-200 wet shot and 22-24 degrees of timing, would a 50/50 mix of 91 octane and 100 octane be enough?
I think some of you think that you want as much timing as the motor can take before detonating to make the most power on the spray. This is simply not true. Because nitrous burns so much faster than fuel/air alone, your optimum point of ignition lead will be a lot less.
Internal combustion engines make peak combustion pressure at about 15 degrees ATDC. In a naturally aspirated engine, we move the ignition timing to allow enough lead to give the burn peak pressure at 15 degrees ATDC. If you have 30 degrees of advance to make best power with your NA motor, that means it takes about 45 degrees for the combustion process to reach it's peak pressure.
When you add a 200 shot of nitrous, your burn rate is a lot faster. Probably only 33-37 degrees of rotation to reach peak combustion pressure. If you don't retard the timing, your peak combustion pressure will occur at 3-7 degrees ATDC. This is way before the sweet spot. The piston doesn't have as much leverage on the crank at 3 degrees ATDC as it does at 15 degrees. If you don't retard your timing, it's costing you power PERIOD! Don't think it's just about avoiding detontation.
One of the reasons detonation occurs is if you get peak cylinder pressure at TDC, the piston is deadlocked. Guess what happens? Major damage! Retard that timing on the juice and watch your power increase!
Internal combustion engines make peak combustion pressure at about 15 degrees ATDC. In a naturally aspirated engine, we move the ignition timing to allow enough lead to give the burn peak pressure at 15 degrees ATDC. If you have 30 degrees of advance to make best power with your NA motor, that means it takes about 45 degrees for the combustion process to reach it's peak pressure.
When you add a 200 shot of nitrous, your burn rate is a lot faster. Probably only 33-37 degrees of rotation to reach peak combustion pressure. If you don't retard the timing, your peak combustion pressure will occur at 3-7 degrees ATDC. This is way before the sweet spot. The piston doesn't have as much leverage on the crank at 3 degrees ATDC as it does at 15 degrees. If you don't retard your timing, it's costing you power PERIOD! Don't think it's just about avoiding detontation.
One of the reasons detonation occurs is if you get peak cylinder pressure at TDC, the piston is deadlocked. Guess what happens? Major damage! Retard that timing on the juice and watch your power increase!
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Id start at 22 and adjust according. I would run 104 unleaded fuel with a colder plug gaped at about 0.30.Thats a safe tuneup and just go more agresseve as you get data.If you have no data and are happy with the car leave it alone because it will just like be like playing with a bomb.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
Don't trust your wideband. They're not all accurate. There is only one thing that will tell you what your engine wants, and that's the spark plug. Spark plugs don't lie. And don't use a chassis dyno to tune N20. Especially you guys with low-pressure, stand-alone fuel systems.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,726
Likes: 0
From: Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by Patrick G
I think some of you think that you want as much timing as the motor can take before detonating to make the most power on the spray. This is simply not true. Because nitrous burns so much faster than fuel/air alone, your optimum point of ignition lead will be a lot less.
Internal combustion engines make peak combustion pressure at about 15 degrees ATDC. In a naturally aspirated engine, we move the ignition timing to allow enough lead to give the burn peak pressure at 15 degrees ATDC. If you have 30 degrees of advance to make best power with your NA motor, that means it takes about 45 degrees for the combustion process to reach it's peak pressure.
When you add a 200 shot of nitrous, your burn rate is a lot faster. Probably only 33-37 degrees of rotation to reach peak combustion pressure. If you don't retard the timing, your peak combustion pressure will occur at 3-7 degrees ATDC. This is way before the sweet spot. The piston doesn't have as much leverage on the crank at 3 degrees ATDC as it does at 15 degrees. If you don't retard your timing, it's costing you power PERIOD! Don't think it's just about avoiding detontation.
One of the reasons detonation occurs is if you get peak cylinder pressure at TDC, the piston is deadlocked. Guess what happens? Major damage! Retard that timing on the juice and watch your power increase!
Internal combustion engines make peak combustion pressure at about 15 degrees ATDC. In a naturally aspirated engine, we move the ignition timing to allow enough lead to give the burn peak pressure at 15 degrees ATDC. If you have 30 degrees of advance to make best power with your NA motor, that means it takes about 45 degrees for the combustion process to reach it's peak pressure.
When you add a 200 shot of nitrous, your burn rate is a lot faster. Probably only 33-37 degrees of rotation to reach peak combustion pressure. If you don't retard the timing, your peak combustion pressure will occur at 3-7 degrees ATDC. This is way before the sweet spot. The piston doesn't have as much leverage on the crank at 3 degrees ATDC as it does at 15 degrees. If you don't retard your timing, it's costing you power PERIOD! Don't think it's just about avoiding detontation.
One of the reasons detonation occurs is if you get peak cylinder pressure at TDC, the piston is deadlocked. Guess what happens? Major damage! Retard that timing on the juice and watch your power increase!
there is so much science in tuning N20 it's not even funny. N/A tuning methods and theories does not apply. It's like tuning an alcohol carburetor the way you'd tune a gasoline carburetor. It doesn't work.
If you're serious about getting max HP out of your nitrous system, you need to hire the services of a professional and reputable tuner.
Originally Posted by Ben R
Don't trust your wideband. They're not all accurate. There is only one thing that will tell you what your engine wants, and that's the spark plug. Spark plugs don't lie. And don't use a chassis dyno to tune N20. Especially you guys with low-pressure, stand-alone fuel systems.
Originally Posted by tuff
Reading plugs is huge as ben r said.BTW i never been dyno tuned even on horsepower.But i do have a wideband.
Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
Ok, probably a dumb question, but what do I look for when reading the plugs, cuz I have no clue, never done it before, so what should they look like if everything is runnin perfect? And what are bad signs?