NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Hello everyone thought we would discuss the needs and time to overhaul or check your noids. I would like a discussion on this not a slam fest and see just how many poeple check their noids from time to time.

HOW OFFTEN SHOULD YOU CHECK YOUR SOLENOIDS.

I have been asked this question many times over the years and to tell you the truth there is no real answer.
Ever car and system are different, with many variables that come into play. Dirty nitrous, dirty install, additives in the fuel, how much is the nitrous system used, and the materials that the noids pistons are made from, is a filter being used.
So we will assume there is a filter on the nitrous system.
A good rule of thumb for the average nitrous user is to check the system once a year.
Now what is an average nitrous user? The average user is someone that goes through a bottle every month or so.
If you go through a bottle every weekend all year long, then you really need to check yours on a more regular base. I would consider you more of a racer than a hobbyist.
Now for you hard core guys that go through bottles every weekend, racing trying to earn some cash, I would treat it like routine maintenance, ever week they need to be check.

Nothing worse than when you thrash all week to go racing get to the track and you find out your nitrous noid is leaking and you have to fix it at the track..

Now the checking is NO big deal, with a noid wrench takes all of 5 minutes. You just take the noid apart and make sure there is no trash collecting on the piston (Nitrous and fuel), and no swelling of the fuel piston.

Ever nitrous noid that I have seen always has trash in it. Some are very very little and other looks like the noid was in a sand blasting cabinet.

So if you want long lasting noids with very limited problems just check them from time to time.

Ricky

terry s

iTrader: (5)

I sure hope the solenoid manufacturers are doing their homework to come up with a fuel piston seal very soon that will tolerate alcohol (ethenol) in pump gas. It is no longer required to post on the pump if ethenol is in the gasoline. From what I have been reading it may not be too much longer before ethenol is the norm in pump gas rather than the exception.

When the ethenol in the gas that you did not know was in there causes your fuel piston seal to swell you will be

Does anyone know if anything is in the works to solve this problem.

Matt@HSW

iTrader: (14)

There already are pistons with different materials available (they are usually black in color). So what's the downside to them? If you start using a fuel without the additives then the "upgraded" pistons will sometimes start swelling up.

Matt

2001 Red Coupe Bandit

Thanks for the post, always good info for us Nitrous Guys from you

Terry, what does alcohal do to our noids? Makes the pistons swell

I never knew that one? I go get gas at Exxon usually anything that has Red, Blue, and White in their logo like Exxon or Chevron

227Hawk

iTrader: (1)

Won't mystery oil compensate for this?? Any petroleum based additive
should stop the seals from drying not swelling??? I thought Alcohol shrank the seals??
Hawk

terry s

iTrader: (5)

Maybe Matt or one of our other experts can correct me if I don't have this exactly right. Alcohol (ethenol commonly used in pump gas) can swell seals designed for gasoline. When this happens I believe the fuel solenoid will fail to open or only partially open. This results in a lean condition when spraying and you know the rest from there.

Another thing I had not thought about is I do not know what the ethenol will do to your AFR Maybe some one can tell us.

I have talked briefly to NX about this. They have seals for straight alcohol which do not work well for gasoline. Their regular seals will swell if exposed to alcohol.

If ethenol becomes as common place as I believe it may I think you are going to have a lot of people damaging motors on spray if different seals are not made available. Particularly in the midwest there is a push for ethenol but I think this could spread nation wide due to emissions & our dependency on oil.

As much as I hate to have to fool with it I guess when I start spraying I will be bringing a sample of my gas home and testing it for alcohol. A pain in the butt- yes but better than taking a chance on loosing a motor.

As a side note you might find www.toptiergas.com interesting. It lists the gas stations that sell gas that meets the top tier standards for keeping your engine clean and free of deposits, which can promote detonation.

terry s

iTrader: (5)

My experience with rubber or neopreme seats in carbeurators is they swell if exposed to alcohol. I have no idea if an additive such as you suggest would prevent this.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Ricky,
Very good post...

Terry you are right. They have a piston for either or but not one that works well for both situations. If you live in a area where the fuel is a problem the answer would be one of our dedicated fuel systems...
Dave

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

I have a cure for swelling fuel noid seals, does anyone know? hehehehehehe

Post is informative and right on. I have always serviced my noids once a year, and have not had a failure. the only failure of a noid I had was by not servicing and it stuck open from contaminates, luckly it was a purge noid. No failures on my main noids ever, fuel or nitrous, so what Ricky says is true and good advice. maybe every year we could replace fuel seals, do a rebuild kit?
Robert

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Ok the ethanol has not been an issue as a hole YET, 2-3 cases a year.. The NX piston is viton for gasoline a tan color and a blue one for alcohol. (not sure of the material think its buna 70 durometer again not sure but I can find out.). Now the fix and the problem. Right now there is only 1 material that can resist all types of fuel, its teflon, the problem is that can not be used in a fuel noid doto the low fuel pressure. SO RULE THAT ONE OUT.
Now viton is good up to a point of additive of ethanol and a few other things they do not tell us about. Now the blue materail or alcohol piston hates gasoline. mixing one with the other swells the pistons and does not let it open. hense the reason to check your noids.
Now the black material is a buna and works well if the viton fails, but again if your mixture swing one way to extreme you can run into a problem.
If ethanol is added to the fuel in to high of a consentration then the injectors, pumps, rubber line the intire system get effected slighly, you may not own the car long enough to fine out but it can does and will happen.
TO THE FUTURE
NX is working with peter paul to try to find a material that can resists these changes. how about this one the I was told that in 2012 mfgs are going to be going to 36volt systems now that will cook a coil.
Ricky

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

I add this to the fuel noid piston swelling problem....I know for a fact Citgo gas will swell the Viton pistons..... I avoid it like the plague. Never had a problem with Chevron....

Has anyone ever heard of Kalrez?

NXJeremy

Good topic. I get this question a lot from customers. As Ricky said, this is an issue that only occurs a couple of times a year right now. With the big push to use alternative fuels I think this will become a major issue for nitrous users much sooner than expected. My recommendation is going with a stand alone fuel system so that you can use what ever fuel you want in the nitrous system. I know it's not at cheap as changing a piston in a solenoid, but it is definately worth it in my opinion when compared to the thousands spent on an engine.

By the way, for all of you out there that have NX solenoids, just send them to us and we will pressure test, rebuild, and retest them at no charge to you for parts and labor. I know a lot of customers don't like taking the time to send them in, but hey, it's a free rebuild and will give you peace of mind about the solenoids operating properly. Just make it part of your maintenance schedule wether it be yearly or semi-yearly or whatever.

Matt@HSW

iTrader: (14)

You have it 100% Terry. Depending on what part of the country you live in they may/may not add additives to the fuels. For us in the Philly metro area it looks like it's a seasonal thing, with the additives showing up right before winter. I had a fuel seal swell up 3 years ago; thank god it was on the dyno.

I have not seen additives affect A/F.

Matt

Somebody09

Hey Ricky, can I just send my 'noids to you? I honestly haven't the slightest clue as to what I'd be looking at if I opened them myself. I'm also very good at taking things apart and not remembering how to reassemble them.

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Happy to look at the solenoids for you...
Ricky

Phoenix 5.7

iTrader: (7)

im so glad louisiana is so far behind when it comes to stuff like this. it is an interesting problem i haven't thought about before. as far as i know, pump gas cannot exceed 15% alcohol due to the cars currently on the road can't accomidate for more(most anyway, some new vehicles are becoming E85 capable).

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

I personally have only heard of a few problems in the last 5 years. So its not a real common problem. But if you live in a area where the gas is crap its good to know whats in it.
Dave

terry s

iTrader: (5)

Who knows what the future holds but for now 10% seems to be the norm when ethenol is added. I think most if not all owners maunals now say it is ok to use up to 10% and still be ok for warranty work.

Ricky/Jeremy: If you guys have not done so already would it be to much to ask for you to get some 10% ethenol gas and do some experimenting to see how it affects your viton pistons? See how long it takes to swell the viton. Is it possible that they will live for some period of time at 10%? It would be expected that more than 10% would have a greater effect, but I doubt we will see more that 10% in the forseeable future. With some testing you may be able to give us some guidence. For example maybe we can get by for 6 months before needing to test/rebuild the fuel solenoids instead of a year.

With all due respect a dedicated fuel system may solve the problem but I for one do not want to put up with the extra cost but more importantly the hassel of having to deal with a dedicated fuel system. I think there may be many others who feel the same way and will look at other alternatives for power adders. I think it will be in the nitrous system manufacturers best interest as far as sales go to try to find a simple solution before your customers start going elsewhere for more horsepower. Just my 2 cents worth but from a business perspective I will bet that the manufacturer who solves this will be glad that they did.

1BADAIR

iTrader: (1)

I was just going to send you a Pm about this cause I saw they have a warranty. I bought a NX maf kit that has maybe 10 bottles through it but whated to be safe and have the noids checked before I use it.
Also I use Sunoco gas with has ethenol. It seems to run the best. Should I avoid it due to the ethenol???

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

I will try to come up with a test for the viton to see if the 10% causes any damage at all... But there are many other chemicals they can add to do the same job. I have found that the areas most effected is the east coast going into winter, and coming out of winter.. Weard I know, the west coast area I have not seen the problem... I have seen gas here in TX do it in mid summer, hit or miss.. We are working to find a media that will work will.. We might try a very soft teflon. Not sure still working on it.
Ricky