nozzle shootout
02-26-2006, 07:29 PM
#62
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which brings up another reason why manufacturers don't like to get into 'shootouts'. as most of us know, each manufacturer will buy from another. this aides in keeping costs lower. so, you don't want to **** in your friends froot loops.
02-26-2006, 08:43 PM
#63
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Seems like our back and forth PM’ing might have upset you in some way
to post something such as this? I apologize if you were upset by our
PM recommending some test guidelines which are fully covered below.
Confirming or denying our sources of supply would be unfair to our
supplier base. We view our relationships with our vendors to be
confidential and not open to the public for general discussion. We
would be more than pleased to participate in your comparison for your
evaluation. Are they similar, perhaps. None of which are open for
discussion. I will tell you that we do not currently have an in-house
CNC so yes, they are outsourced for manufacturing of which is
confidential. Our nozzle has been proven to work and that’s all that
matters. You can feel free to evaluate on your own and form your own
opinions as to where the nozzles come from, but I will not discuss it
any further than that.
Concerning this nozzle comparison…I have tried my hardest to stay
clear of any debate surrounding this issue for the simple reason that
it ends all the same. Crying, whining, bitching and moaning! No
matter what you do, someone always gets upset and that has been
confirmed with the last few threads! I could feed you all the tech
info in my brain and I can tell you one thing that is going to happen,
someone is going to disagree and it ends in a debate…of which is not
worth my time to debate. I know what works and I sell what works,
plain and simple. All of the nozzles that are going to be tested are
going to perform. Are they all going to perform exactly the same?
No, but they are all going to perform well within each other.
Furthermore, it is proving to be very difficult to set a pre-
determined set of parameters for this test. I will tell you that one
dyno pull for each nozzle is ridiculous. I would like to at least see
3-5 pulls for each nozzle. Overboard? Perhaps, but this is the ONLY
clear way to exclude any possible errors that could have happened in
one single pull. Second, it was stated by another sponsor that it is
not the nozzle that makes the power, but in effect the entire kit.
This is correct. Pieces are not just slapped together and shipped out
expecting to perform. Each kit is designed to work as a unit. Will
you come close, yes, but that is not the point! Third, bottle
pressure…each kit is jetted differently for different pressures. This
isn’t just randomly picked out of a hat. Its picked for a reason and
that very reason has a direct outcome on output generated, and a/f.
If a nozzle proves to produce a rich condition due to bends and turns
in the nozzle body, it needs to be adequately compensated for. To use
the same exact jets for each nozzle is going to throw a/f all over the
place, I guarantee it! Next in line is the issue of how well the
nozzle performs throughout the HP jetting range. What determines how
well a nozzle works (efficiency)? 35HP, 250HP?? Isn’t a nozzle that
performs well at every single one of those hp settings better and more
expandable than one that only performs well low or high? I think so.
So how does that play into your comparison? Are you going to test
each nozzle low and high? And each time doing pulls 3-5 times?
That’s a lot of time and money!!! Not to mention the fact that the
atmosphere will have completely changed by the time you first start to
the time you end. Next is bottle pressure and more importantly bottle
volume. I am having a hard time understanding what you will do for
each nozzle…are you going to top the bottle off after x amount of
runs? Etc. That will obviously have a direct effect as well. As you
can see, that is just a few parameters off of the top of my head that
have not been addressed and in my opinion is the only way to provide a
true test. Also, what is more important TQ or HP? What if a nozzle
gave more torque but less horsepower at a “better” a/f ratio than
another nozzle? Is the leaner nozzle that produced more HP but less
TQ at a higher A/F judged as a “better” more efficient nozzle? That
is and would be VERY highly debated!
I’m not in any way discrediting you or your test. It’s very noble for
you to stand up and say hey, I want to know what the differences are
between these nozzles…and then to share it with the rest of the
community is even better! However, do it in such a way that all
errors are negated and so that each nozzle is tested in the very way
it was shipped out. But I will say this much…I already see that it’s
turning into personal opinions. Is the idea of this test to say this
nozzle looks like this, this nozzle looks like ***, and this one has
fancy pictures on it, and this one is brass, or is it to show this is
how this nozzle performs!?!?! If you want to throw personal opinions
and guess who manufactures nozzles in, then the whole test is void
cause it shows that there COULD perhaps be some discrimination. To
sum this up, I will more than happily send you my nozzle! I am in no
way unconfident of its capabilities. It’s a proven nozzle and it will
perform on par if not better than the rest. If you’d like to test
each nozzle with one set of jets, by all means do so. And please
share with the rest of the general public, but I will tell you three
things are for sure. The test is flawed, your wallet will be thinner
and there will for sure be at least one person that will bitch and
moan once the results are in, which could be very ligitmate due to
testing flaws. This may come off as a stickler or being very prude,
but remember that what you publish with any inaccuracies could
potentially jeopardize a companies reputation unjustly, unless 100%
pure testing conditions are provided that one dyno pull has an awful
lot riding on it, catch my point? And you’re not only playing with
your own money but you also have to appease the people that have
paypal’d you. What if they gave 20 bucks and in the end they feel
ripped because they think you should have tested differently?
Regardless, my opinion has been expressed (which is in no way
representative of HSW).
Matt
to post something such as this? I apologize if you were upset by our
PM recommending some test guidelines which are fully covered below.
Confirming or denying our sources of supply would be unfair to our
supplier base. We view our relationships with our vendors to be
confidential and not open to the public for general discussion. We
would be more than pleased to participate in your comparison for your
evaluation. Are they similar, perhaps. None of which are open for
discussion. I will tell you that we do not currently have an in-house
CNC so yes, they are outsourced for manufacturing of which is
confidential. Our nozzle has been proven to work and that’s all that
matters. You can feel free to evaluate on your own and form your own
opinions as to where the nozzles come from, but I will not discuss it
any further than that.
Concerning this nozzle comparison…I have tried my hardest to stay
clear of any debate surrounding this issue for the simple reason that
it ends all the same. Crying, whining, bitching and moaning! No
matter what you do, someone always gets upset and that has been
confirmed with the last few threads! I could feed you all the tech
info in my brain and I can tell you one thing that is going to happen,
someone is going to disagree and it ends in a debate…of which is not
worth my time to debate. I know what works and I sell what works,
plain and simple. All of the nozzles that are going to be tested are
going to perform. Are they all going to perform exactly the same?
No, but they are all going to perform well within each other.
Furthermore, it is proving to be very difficult to set a pre-
determined set of parameters for this test. I will tell you that one
dyno pull for each nozzle is ridiculous. I would like to at least see
3-5 pulls for each nozzle. Overboard? Perhaps, but this is the ONLY
clear way to exclude any possible errors that could have happened in
one single pull. Second, it was stated by another sponsor that it is
not the nozzle that makes the power, but in effect the entire kit.
This is correct. Pieces are not just slapped together and shipped out
expecting to perform. Each kit is designed to work as a unit. Will
you come close, yes, but that is not the point! Third, bottle
pressure…each kit is jetted differently for different pressures. This
isn’t just randomly picked out of a hat. Its picked for a reason and
that very reason has a direct outcome on output generated, and a/f.
If a nozzle proves to produce a rich condition due to bends and turns
in the nozzle body, it needs to be adequately compensated for. To use
the same exact jets for each nozzle is going to throw a/f all over the
place, I guarantee it! Next in line is the issue of how well the
nozzle performs throughout the HP jetting range. What determines how
well a nozzle works (efficiency)? 35HP, 250HP?? Isn’t a nozzle that
performs well at every single one of those hp settings better and more
expandable than one that only performs well low or high? I think so.
So how does that play into your comparison? Are you going to test
each nozzle low and high? And each time doing pulls 3-5 times?
That’s a lot of time and money!!! Not to mention the fact that the
atmosphere will have completely changed by the time you first start to
the time you end. Next is bottle pressure and more importantly bottle
volume. I am having a hard time understanding what you will do for
each nozzle…are you going to top the bottle off after x amount of
runs? Etc. That will obviously have a direct effect as well. As you
can see, that is just a few parameters off of the top of my head that
have not been addressed and in my opinion is the only way to provide a
true test. Also, what is more important TQ or HP? What if a nozzle
gave more torque but less horsepower at a “better” a/f ratio than
another nozzle? Is the leaner nozzle that produced more HP but less
TQ at a higher A/F judged as a “better” more efficient nozzle? That
is and would be VERY highly debated!
I’m not in any way discrediting you or your test. It’s very noble for
you to stand up and say hey, I want to know what the differences are
between these nozzles…and then to share it with the rest of the
community is even better! However, do it in such a way that all
errors are negated and so that each nozzle is tested in the very way
it was shipped out. But I will say this much…I already see that it’s
turning into personal opinions. Is the idea of this test to say this
nozzle looks like this, this nozzle looks like ***, and this one has
fancy pictures on it, and this one is brass, or is it to show this is
how this nozzle performs!?!?! If you want to throw personal opinions
and guess who manufactures nozzles in, then the whole test is void
cause it shows that there COULD perhaps be some discrimination. To
sum this up, I will more than happily send you my nozzle! I am in no
way unconfident of its capabilities. It’s a proven nozzle and it will
perform on par if not better than the rest. If you’d like to test
each nozzle with one set of jets, by all means do so. And please
share with the rest of the general public, but I will tell you three
things are for sure. The test is flawed, your wallet will be thinner
and there will for sure be at least one person that will bitch and
moan once the results are in, which could be very ligitmate due to
testing flaws. This may come off as a stickler or being very prude,
but remember that what you publish with any inaccuracies could
potentially jeopardize a companies reputation unjustly, unless 100%
pure testing conditions are provided that one dyno pull has an awful
lot riding on it, catch my point? And you’re not only playing with
your own money but you also have to appease the people that have
paypal’d you. What if they gave 20 bucks and in the end they feel
ripped because they think you should have tested differently?
Regardless, my opinion has been expressed (which is in no way
representative of HSW).
Matt
02-26-2006, 08:48 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by Matt@HSW
Seems like our back and forth PM’ing might have upset you in some way
to post something such as this? I apologize if you were upset by our
PM recommending some test guidelines which are fully covered below.
Confirming or denying our sources of supply would be unfair to our
supplier base. We view our relationships with our vendors to be
confidential and not open to the public for general discussion.
to post something such as this? I apologize if you were upset by our
PM recommending some test guidelines which are fully covered below.
Confirming or denying our sources of supply would be unfair to our
supplier base. We view our relationships with our vendors to be
confidential and not open to the public for general discussion.
02-26-2006, 08:54 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by mrr23
no, it did not upset me in anyway whatsoever. i have removed that post. my apologies.
02-26-2006, 09:10 PM
#68
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Originally Posted by Matt@HSW
If a nozzle proves to produce a rich condition due to bends and turns
in the nozzle body, it needs to be adequately compensated for. To use
the same exact jets for each nozzle is going to throw a/f all over the
place, I guarantee it!
in the nozzle body, it needs to be adequately compensated for. To use
the same exact jets for each nozzle is going to throw a/f all over the
place, I guarantee it!
Originally Posted by Matt@HSW
I am having a hard time understanding what you will do for
each nozzle…are you going to top the bottle off after x amount of
runs? Etc. That will obviously have a direct effect as well.
each nozzle…are you going to top the bottle off after x amount of
runs? Etc. That will obviously have a direct effect as well.
Originally Posted by MAtt@HSW
But I will say this much…I already see that it’s
turning into personal opinions. Is the idea of this test to say this
nozzle looks like this, this nozzle looks like ***, and this one has
fancy pictures on it, and this one is brass, or is it to show this is
how this nozzle performs!?!?!
turning into personal opinions. Is the idea of this test to say this
nozzle looks like this, this nozzle looks like ***, and this one has
fancy pictures on it, and this one is brass, or is it to show this is
how this nozzle performs!?!?!
[Matt@HSW] If you’d like to test
each nozzle with one set of jets, by all means do so. And please
share with the rest of the general public,[/quote]
you did go over my previous test didn't you? http://www.stealthram.com/nxnytrex.htm i published this on this site and i think on ls1.com as well.
[Matt@HSW]The test is flawed, your wallet will be thinner
and there will for sure be at least one person that will bitch and
moan once the results are in, which could be very ligitmate due to
testing flaws. [/quote]
let's unflaw it as much as possible, yes it will, and there will be more than one person that'll bitch.
Originally Posted by Matt@HSW
This may come off as a stickler or being very prude,
but remember that what you publish with any inaccuracies could
potentially jeopardize a companies reputation unjustly, unless 100%
pure testing conditions are provided that one dyno pull has an awful
lot riding on it, catch my point? And you’re not only playing with
your own money but you also have to appease the people that have
paypal’d you. What if they gave 20 bucks and in the end they feel
ripped because they think you should have tested differently?
Regardless, my opinion has been expressed (which is in no way
representative of HSW).
but remember that what you publish with any inaccuracies could
potentially jeopardize a companies reputation unjustly, unless 100%
pure testing conditions are provided that one dyno pull has an awful
lot riding on it, catch my point? And you’re not only playing with
your own money but you also have to appease the people that have
paypal’d you. What if they gave 20 bucks and in the end they feel
ripped because they think you should have tested differently?
Regardless, my opinion has been expressed (which is in no way
representative of HSW).
Last edited by mrr23; 03-07-2006 at 09:40 PM.
02-26-2006, 09:18 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by nick@hsw
No need to apologize what so ever! No offence here, we were just unsure if you were somehow upset by us requesting some test parameters. I think this demonstrates just how unbiased you are and that you are more than capable of throwing away any personal opinions and judging purely on the basis of power generation. You're the man! Especially for ponying up the $$.
so, can i count on a black mamba nozzle?
02-26-2006, 09:56 PM
#70
Originally Posted by Matt@HSW
Seems like our back and forth PM’ing might have upset you in some way
to post something such as this? I apologize if you were upset by our
PM recommending some test guidelines which are fully covered below.
Confirming or denying our sources of supply would be unfair to our
supplier base. We view our relationships with our vendors to be
confidential and not open to the public for general discussion. We
would be more than pleased to participate in your comparison for your
evaluation. Are they similar, perhaps. None of which are open for
discussion. I will tell you that we do not currently have an in-house
CNC so yes, they are outsourced for manufacturing of which is
confidential. Our nozzle has been proven to work and that’s all that
matters. You can feel free to evaluate on your own and form your own
opinions as to where the nozzles come from, but I will not discuss it
any further than that.
Concerning this nozzle comparison…I have tried my hardest to stay
clear of any debate surrounding this issue for the simple reason that
it ends all the same. Crying, whining, bitching and moaning! No
matter what you do, someone always gets upset and that has been
confirmed with the last few threads! I could feed you all the tech
info in my brain and I can tell you one thing that is going to happen,
someone is going to disagree and it ends in a debate…of which is not
worth my time to debate. I know what works and I sell what works,
plain and simple. All of the nozzles that are going to be tested are
going to perform. Are they all going to perform exactly the same?
No, but they are all going to perform well within each other.
Furthermore, it is proving to be very difficult to set a pre-
determined set of parameters for this test. I will tell you that one
dyno pull for each nozzle is ridiculous. I would like to at least see
3-5 pulls for each nozzle. Overboard? Perhaps, but this is the ONLY
clear way to exclude any possible errors that could have happened in
one single pull. Second, it was stated by another sponsor that it is
not the nozzle that makes the power, but in effect the entire kit.
This is correct. Pieces are not just slapped together and shipped out
expecting to perform. Each kit is designed to work as a unit. Will
you come close, yes, but that is not the point! Third, bottle
pressure…each kit is jetted differently for different pressures. This
isn’t just randomly picked out of a hat. Its picked for a reason and
that very reason has a direct outcome on output generated, and a/f.
If a nozzle proves to produce a rich condition due to bends and turns
in the nozzle body, it needs to be adequately compensated for. To use
the same exact jets for each nozzle is going to throw a/f all over the
place, I guarantee it! Next in line is the issue of how well the
nozzle performs throughout the HP jetting range. What determines how
well a nozzle works (efficiency)? 35HP, 250HP?? Isn’t a nozzle that
performs well at every single one of those hp settings better and more
expandable than one that only performs well low or high? I think so.
So how does that play into your comparison? Are you going to test
each nozzle low and high? And each time doing pulls 3-5 times?
That’s a lot of time and money!!! Not to mention the fact that the
atmosphere will have completely changed by the time you first start to
the time you end. Next is bottle pressure and more importantly bottle
volume. I am having a hard time understanding what you will do for
each nozzle…are you going to top the bottle off after x amount of
runs? Etc. That will obviously have a direct effect as well. As you
can see, that is just a few parameters off of the top of my head that
have not been addressed and in my opinion is the only way to provide a
true test. Also, what is more important TQ or HP? What if a nozzle
gave more torque but less horsepower at a “better” a/f ratio than
another nozzle? Is the leaner nozzle that produced more HP but less
TQ at a higher A/F judged as a “better” more efficient nozzle? That
is and would be VERY highly debated!
I’m not in any way discrediting you or your test. It’s very noble for
you to stand up and say hey, I want to know what the differences are
between these nozzles…and then to share it with the rest of the
community is even better! However, do it in such a way that all
errors are negated and so that each nozzle is tested in the very way
it was shipped out. But I will say this much…I already see that it’s
turning into personal opinions. Is the idea of this test to say this
nozzle looks like this, this nozzle looks like ***, and this one has
fancy pictures on it, and this one is brass, or is it to show this is
how this nozzle performs!?!?! If you want to throw personal opinions
and guess who manufactures nozzles in, then the whole test is void
cause it shows that there COULD perhaps be some discrimination. To
sum this up, I will more than happily send you my nozzle! I am in no
way unconfident of its capabilities. It’s a proven nozzle and it will
perform on par if not better than the rest. If you’d like to test
each nozzle with one set of jets, by all means do so. And please
share with the rest of the general public, but I will tell you three
things are for sure. The test is flawed, your wallet will be thinner
and there will for sure be at least one person that will bitch and
moan once the results are in, which could be very ligitmate due to
testing flaws. This may come off as a stickler or being very prude,
but remember that what you publish with any inaccuracies could
potentially jeopardize a companies reputation unjustly, unless 100%
pure testing conditions are provided that one dyno pull has an awful
lot riding on it, catch my point? And you’re not only playing with
your own money but you also have to appease the people that have
paypal’d you. What if they gave 20 bucks and in the end they feel
ripped because they think you should have tested differently?
Regardless, my opinion has been expressed (which is in no way
representative of HSW).
Matt
to post something such as this? I apologize if you were upset by our
PM recommending some test guidelines which are fully covered below.
Confirming or denying our sources of supply would be unfair to our
supplier base. We view our relationships with our vendors to be
confidential and not open to the public for general discussion. We
would be more than pleased to participate in your comparison for your
evaluation. Are they similar, perhaps. None of which are open for
discussion. I will tell you that we do not currently have an in-house
CNC so yes, they are outsourced for manufacturing of which is
confidential. Our nozzle has been proven to work and that’s all that
matters. You can feel free to evaluate on your own and form your own
opinions as to where the nozzles come from, but I will not discuss it
any further than that.
Concerning this nozzle comparison…I have tried my hardest to stay
clear of any debate surrounding this issue for the simple reason that
it ends all the same. Crying, whining, bitching and moaning! No
matter what you do, someone always gets upset and that has been
confirmed with the last few threads! I could feed you all the tech
info in my brain and I can tell you one thing that is going to happen,
someone is going to disagree and it ends in a debate…of which is not
worth my time to debate. I know what works and I sell what works,
plain and simple. All of the nozzles that are going to be tested are
going to perform. Are they all going to perform exactly the same?
No, but they are all going to perform well within each other.
Furthermore, it is proving to be very difficult to set a pre-
determined set of parameters for this test. I will tell you that one
dyno pull for each nozzle is ridiculous. I would like to at least see
3-5 pulls for each nozzle. Overboard? Perhaps, but this is the ONLY
clear way to exclude any possible errors that could have happened in
one single pull. Second, it was stated by another sponsor that it is
not the nozzle that makes the power, but in effect the entire kit.
This is correct. Pieces are not just slapped together and shipped out
expecting to perform. Each kit is designed to work as a unit. Will
you come close, yes, but that is not the point! Third, bottle
pressure…each kit is jetted differently for different pressures. This
isn’t just randomly picked out of a hat. Its picked for a reason and
that very reason has a direct outcome on output generated, and a/f.
If a nozzle proves to produce a rich condition due to bends and turns
in the nozzle body, it needs to be adequately compensated for. To use
the same exact jets for each nozzle is going to throw a/f all over the
place, I guarantee it! Next in line is the issue of how well the
nozzle performs throughout the HP jetting range. What determines how
well a nozzle works (efficiency)? 35HP, 250HP?? Isn’t a nozzle that
performs well at every single one of those hp settings better and more
expandable than one that only performs well low or high? I think so.
So how does that play into your comparison? Are you going to test
each nozzle low and high? And each time doing pulls 3-5 times?
That’s a lot of time and money!!! Not to mention the fact that the
atmosphere will have completely changed by the time you first start to
the time you end. Next is bottle pressure and more importantly bottle
volume. I am having a hard time understanding what you will do for
each nozzle…are you going to top the bottle off after x amount of
runs? Etc. That will obviously have a direct effect as well. As you
can see, that is just a few parameters off of the top of my head that
have not been addressed and in my opinion is the only way to provide a
true test. Also, what is more important TQ or HP? What if a nozzle
gave more torque but less horsepower at a “better” a/f ratio than
another nozzle? Is the leaner nozzle that produced more HP but less
TQ at a higher A/F judged as a “better” more efficient nozzle? That
is and would be VERY highly debated!
I’m not in any way discrediting you or your test. It’s very noble for
you to stand up and say hey, I want to know what the differences are
between these nozzles…and then to share it with the rest of the
community is even better! However, do it in such a way that all
errors are negated and so that each nozzle is tested in the very way
it was shipped out. But I will say this much…I already see that it’s
turning into personal opinions. Is the idea of this test to say this
nozzle looks like this, this nozzle looks like ***, and this one has
fancy pictures on it, and this one is brass, or is it to show this is
how this nozzle performs!?!?! If you want to throw personal opinions
and guess who manufactures nozzles in, then the whole test is void
cause it shows that there COULD perhaps be some discrimination. To
sum this up, I will more than happily send you my nozzle! I am in no
way unconfident of its capabilities. It’s a proven nozzle and it will
perform on par if not better than the rest. If you’d like to test
each nozzle with one set of jets, by all means do so. And please
share with the rest of the general public, but I will tell you three
things are for sure. The test is flawed, your wallet will be thinner
and there will for sure be at least one person that will bitch and
moan once the results are in, which could be very ligitmate due to
testing flaws. This may come off as a stickler or being very prude,
but remember that what you publish with any inaccuracies could
potentially jeopardize a companies reputation unjustly, unless 100%
pure testing conditions are provided that one dyno pull has an awful
lot riding on it, catch my point? And you’re not only playing with
your own money but you also have to appease the people that have
paypal’d you. What if they gave 20 bucks and in the end they feel
ripped because they think you should have tested differently?
Regardless, my opinion has been expressed (which is in no way
representative of HSW).
Matt
Robert
02-26-2006, 10:01 PM
#71
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Good post Matt. But I still think the tests should go ahead. They certainly will not be perfect. It would take some manpower,time and money to get it perfect. But I do believe we could test to extract enough info to see a few things.
I want to go ahead because as I have said I think the differences will be negligable. If a nozzle doesnt stand out by a considerable percentage....by much more than the flaws could swing the results...then its a wash.
Differences of 4 HP on a 100 shot arent going to prove much. Differences of 20 hp....hmmm. But I dont see that happening. if here is a nozzle that lacks...im sure the weights will also reflect that.
In any event....all Mrr23 can do is the best he can do. If the tests are done and its a total abortion...well what can ya do.
I would just ask that we all dont expect too much. This test will not be any type of final say. Just an attempt to gain some info.
Mrr23...You might try to limit the total number of nozzles you test. Maybe 5 or 6 or whatever you think you can handle.I would rather have quality over quantity.
I want to go ahead because as I have said I think the differences will be negligable. If a nozzle doesnt stand out by a considerable percentage....by much more than the flaws could swing the results...then its a wash.
Differences of 4 HP on a 100 shot arent going to prove much. Differences of 20 hp....hmmm. But I dont see that happening. if here is a nozzle that lacks...im sure the weights will also reflect that.
In any event....all Mrr23 can do is the best he can do. If the tests are done and its a total abortion...well what can ya do.
I would just ask that we all dont expect too much. This test will not be any type of final say. Just an attempt to gain some info.
Mrr23...You might try to limit the total number of nozzles you test. Maybe 5 or 6 or whatever you think you can handle.I would rather have quality over quantity.
02-26-2006, 10:23 PM
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Wow nice write up matt!
I beleive hot rod did a big write up a few months ago on plates for a squarebore carb. If i remember correctly the barry grant plate won by a ton. So this should be interting to see the out come.
I beleive hot rod did a big write up a few months ago on plates for a squarebore carb. If i remember correctly the barry grant plate won by a ton. So this should be interting to see the out come.
02-26-2006, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
Mrr23...You might try to limit the total number of nozzles you test. Maybe 5 or 6 or whatever you think you can handle.I would rather have quality over quantity.
02-26-2006, 10:37 PM
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Damm 4 pages already..
It will be extemely hard to perform the PERFECT test for each nozzle. Again its just a test.
EAch nozzle has good and bad points. But for this customer, he wants the best part for his car. Now that does not mean it will be the best on someone elses car.
I really do not think any bitch'n will be going on at the end, no need just a test. And Mrr23 is totaly on his way to given a real world test of just one part in a puzzle. I commend him in offering MFG. to be involved in helping with setting up the parameters. He could have easily just got a bunch of nozzels, done an off the hook test and posted up. NOW THAT surely would cause the bitch'n phone to ring non stop.
I am comfortable at what ever bottle pressure you pick, 900-950-1000-1050. Reason will be revealed at a later date. Jets you may need to modifiy the jet holder depending on the nozzle selected for this test. Hmmm test maybe needs to be call comparison instaed of test..lol
I have full access to nitrous and a really nice scale, at the end if you want lbs per hour of nitrous flow I may be able to help...
Ricky
It will be extemely hard to perform the PERFECT test for each nozzle. Again its just a test.
EAch nozzle has good and bad points. But for this customer, he wants the best part for his car. Now that does not mean it will be the best on someone elses car.
I really do not think any bitch'n will be going on at the end, no need just a test. And Mrr23 is totaly on his way to given a real world test of just one part in a puzzle. I commend him in offering MFG. to be involved in helping with setting up the parameters. He could have easily just got a bunch of nozzels, done an off the hook test and posted up. NOW THAT surely would cause the bitch'n phone to ring non stop.
I am comfortable at what ever bottle pressure you pick, 900-950-1000-1050. Reason will be revealed at a later date. Jets you may need to modifiy the jet holder depending on the nozzle selected for this test. Hmmm test maybe needs to be call comparison instaed of test..lol
I have full access to nitrous and a really nice scale, at the end if you want lbs per hour of nitrous flow I may be able to help...
Ricky
03-01-2006, 09:47 AM
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At the risk of being labeled with the "core NX group" (I don't even like those guys,
) I'll throw my thoughts out there.
Based on the last group of tests performed by mrr23, I think he would be a good canidate for performing this type of test. He seems to be unbiased, methodical, and meticulous in his testing.
So far, the parameters mentioned sound to be good. However, I still feel this type of test is not going to show a whole lot other than that all of the nozzles will probably perform within a pretty small percentage of each other. I think this only because I am a big believer in the idea that parts have to work well as a complete system (which is a completely different 5+ page thread
). Using only one complete system and changing only the nozzle shows me personally that a particular nozzle may perform better or worse than other nozzles when used with another companies system, and that same nozzle may perform completely different when used with a complete system from the same manufacturer.
Hypothetical example would be;
Brand A complete system on a car makes 300hp @ 11.5:1 a/f
Take Brand B nozzle and put it in Brand A system with same jetting and it produces 350hp @ 13:1 a/f. Now take the Brand B nozzle and use it with the complete Brand B system and it makes it only make 290hp @ 12.5 a/f. I know this example is extreme, but the point is manufacturers perform lots of R&D to build and entire system that they feel works well, not just a single part.
Even with all of that said, I am still very interested in seeing the results from mrr23's testing.
) I'll throw my thoughts out there. Based on the last group of tests performed by mrr23, I think he would be a good canidate for performing this type of test. He seems to be unbiased, methodical, and meticulous in his testing.
So far, the parameters mentioned sound to be good. However, I still feel this type of test is not going to show a whole lot other than that all of the nozzles will probably perform within a pretty small percentage of each other. I think this only because I am a big believer in the idea that parts have to work well as a complete system (which is a completely different 5+ page thread
). Using only one complete system and changing only the nozzle shows me personally that a particular nozzle may perform better or worse than other nozzles when used with another companies system, and that same nozzle may perform completely different when used with a complete system from the same manufacturer. Hypothetical example would be;
Brand A complete system on a car makes 300hp @ 11.5:1 a/f
Take Brand B nozzle and put it in Brand A system with same jetting and it produces 350hp @ 13:1 a/f. Now take the Brand B nozzle and use it with the complete Brand B system and it makes it only make 290hp @ 12.5 a/f. I know this example is extreme, but the point is manufacturers perform lots of R&D to build and entire system that they feel works well, not just a single part.
Even with all of that said, I am still very interested in seeing the results from mrr23's testing.
Last edited by NXJeremy; 03-01-2006 at 10:16 AM.
03-01-2006, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mrr23
with all this recent talk about who's nozzle is better, i'll put this out and see who responds. IMO, i think we can agree that i can create a fair test platform. and be unbiased in it. so, i'll put up my 00 formula and my time to do this shootout. one car, one dyno, one day. here's the last test i did http://www.stealthram.com/nxnytrex.htm
i'll make a list of nozzles and see who wants to add to it. we'll discuss parameters.
cold fusion - ???
compucar - have this nozzle
dynotune - ???
edelbrock - ???
harris speedworks - ???
nos - ???
nx - have shark nozzle, lend 1 vortec, and 1 SHO total of three
ny-trex - have this nozzle
tnt - ???
860 performance to lend a window switch
any company want to put up??? i'll even buy the nozzle just like i did with the nx nozzle. ricky did make the statement that if i didn't like his nozzle i could return it for refund. if i like the nozzle, i'll be keeping it if i paid for it. if you send it for free, i'll send it back once the testing is done. 383LQ4SS is in my neighborhood. if he wants to help referee, by all means stop in.
ok who's game???
860 performance - monetary donation 2/26/06
383LQ4SS - monetary donation 2/26/06
CAT3 - monetary donation 2/26/06
i'll make a list of nozzles and see who wants to add to it. we'll discuss parameters.
cold fusion - ???
compucar - have this nozzle
dynotune - ???
edelbrock - ???
harris speedworks - ???
nos - ???
nx - have shark nozzle, lend 1 vortec, and 1 SHO total of three
ny-trex - have this nozzle
tnt - ???
860 performance to lend a window switch
any company want to put up??? i'll even buy the nozzle just like i did with the nx nozzle. ricky did make the statement that if i didn't like his nozzle i could return it for refund. if i like the nozzle, i'll be keeping it if i paid for it. if you send it for free, i'll send it back once the testing is done. 383LQ4SS is in my neighborhood. if he wants to help referee, by all means stop in.
ok who's game???
860 performance - monetary donation 2/26/06
383LQ4SS - monetary donation 2/26/06
CAT3 - monetary donation 2/26/06
Sorry havent been on here in a while but Texas Nitrous Technology is game
Let me know what you need from us, David@TNT
03-01-2006, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert56
I agree, I think. One prob may be with TNT, they run a 900psi rating, and jacking that up to 1000psi is just like upsizing the nitrous jet and leaning package out for ultimatly higher hp. So, not sure what the answer is?
Robert
Robert
03-01-2006, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by David@TNT
Sorry havent been on here in a while but Texas Nitrous Technology is game Let me know what you need from us, David@TNT
Let me know what you need from us, David@TNT