View Poll Results: Progressive vs two stage, which is easier on parts
progressive controller 250- shot
48
45.71%
two stages, 100 shot, 150 second stage
32
30.48%
two stage, 125 first, 125 second
25
23.81%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll
progressive vs two stage
08-26-2007, 07:51 PM
#41
Originally Posted by =ZoomZ=
What dave said 
imo , progressive controllers are for the track and multi stage setups are for the street .
imo , progressive controllers are for the track and multi stage setups are for the street .
We could go with this theory, Progressive controllers are for those that do not know how to set up a multi stage, and multi stage is more for the advanced users. I really can't see the need for a progessive if you know what your doing, concerning dual/triple staging.
Robert
08-27-2007, 12:41 AM
#42
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Unless you are restricted to one stage like lots of true 10.5 racing rules specify. Then you run a 3-500 single stage with a controller......Problem with a controller is
It still opens fully so the torque is still there, even if it is coming on and off really fast. We ran a car on the dyno with a NOS digital controller at 50% total and then the next run we stepped it up to 100%....It made the same hp and tq it was just alittle choopier with 50% on.......I race a car in True street and we can put the controller on 35-100% of a 350 shot in 1.2 secs and it goes the same exact 60ft as 75-100% in 1.0.....See what I am saying...... You really have to work the controller to get the effects you want out of it. With the black camaro I used to race that went 5.56 had a 2 stage dry kit. Left off 1 stage and grabbed the second one well before the 60ft. But the 1st stage had enough fuel in it to compensate for the 2nd stage and also had enough timing pulled for the second stage when I left off the brake also. so it wasn't making a billion tq off the brake....To much fuel and not enough timing kills the torque, which made for a 1.29 60ft on radials.......I have 2 stage on my car and BS3 contols everything.
It still opens fully so the torque is still there, even if it is coming on and off really fast. We ran a car on the dyno with a NOS digital controller at 50% total and then the next run we stepped it up to 100%....It made the same hp and tq it was just alittle choopier with 50% on.......I race a car in True street and we can put the controller on 35-100% of a 350 shot in 1.2 secs and it goes the same exact 60ft as 75-100% in 1.0.....See what I am saying...... You really have to work the controller to get the effects you want out of it. With the black camaro I used to race that went 5.56 had a 2 stage dry kit. Left off 1 stage and grabbed the second one well before the 60ft. But the 1st stage had enough fuel in it to compensate for the 2nd stage and also had enough timing pulled for the second stage when I left off the brake also. so it wasn't making a billion tq off the brake....To much fuel and not enough timing kills the torque, which made for a 1.29 60ft on radials.......I have 2 stage on my car and BS3 contols everything.
08-27-2007, 08:42 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by GueSS Who
Unless you are restricted to one stage like lots of true 10.5 racing rules specify. Then you run a 3-500 single stage with a controller......Problem with a controller is
It still opens fully so the torque is still there, even if it is coming on and off really fast. We ran a car on the dyno with a NOS digital controller at 50% total and then the next run we stepped it up to 100%....It made the same hp and tq it was just alittle choopier with 50% on.......I race a car in True street and we can put the controller on 35-100% of a 350 shot in 1.2 secs and it goes the same exact 60ft as 75-100% in 1.0.....See what I am saying...... You really have to work the controller to get the effects you want out of it. With the black camaro I used to race that went 5.56 had a 2 stage dry kit. Left off 1 stage and grabbed the second one well before the 60ft. But the 1st stage had enough fuel in it to compensate for the 2nd stage and also had enough timing pulled for the second stage when I left off the brake also. so it wasn't making a billion tq off the brake....To much fuel and not enough timing kills the torque, which made for a 1.29 60ft on radials.......I have 2 stage on my car and BS3 contols everything.
It still opens fully so the torque is still there, even if it is coming on and off really fast. We ran a car on the dyno with a NOS digital controller at 50% total and then the next run we stepped it up to 100%....It made the same hp and tq it was just alittle choopier with 50% on.......I race a car in True street and we can put the controller on 35-100% of a 350 shot in 1.2 secs and it goes the same exact 60ft as 75-100% in 1.0.....See what I am saying...... You really have to work the controller to get the effects you want out of it. With the black camaro I used to race that went 5.56 had a 2 stage dry kit. Left off 1 stage and grabbed the second one well before the 60ft. But the 1st stage had enough fuel in it to compensate for the 2nd stage and also had enough timing pulled for the second stage when I left off the brake also. so it wasn't making a billion tq off the brake....To much fuel and not enough timing kills the torque, which made for a 1.29 60ft on radials.......I have 2 stage on my car and BS3 contols everything.
(I know
)
08-27-2007, 08:02 PM
#44
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I vote 150 on the first stage and 100 on the second. Because I feel you should spray as much as you can hook out of the hole. But I'm still not a veteren like some of the above people.
I'm thinking 150 then a 75 on friday if all goes well I'll have some new times.
I'm thinking 150 then a 75 on friday if all goes well I'll have some new times.
09-18-2007, 04:14 AM
#45
I was trying to decide about going with progressive or dual stage. I know I can hook a 150, but the 200 gets crazy. With my end goal being a 250 shot, I voted as close to how I am going to set mine up. 2 stage -- 150 on the first and 100 on the second.
09-18-2007, 12:46 PM
#46
Before I post this keep in mind its a BBC.
Im going from a two stage plate to a single stage big shot DP. Noids are NOS super power shots.
Rebuilding them every season is only smart.
I doubt I will go with a progressive, a lot of the faster BBC guys around here just hit it with a big single and leave it at that but we can hold a lot more power and cyslinder pressure then the LS blocks if you ask me. Ill go with a 275 I think threw a DP single.
Car traped at 136 spinning on a 150ish shot out of second...... going to port the heads and intake this winter also.
Im going from a two stage plate to a single stage big shot DP. Noids are NOS super power shots.
Rebuilding them every season is only smart.
I doubt I will go with a progressive, a lot of the faster BBC guys around here just hit it with a big single and leave it at that but we can hold a lot more power and cyslinder pressure then the LS blocks if you ask me. Ill go with a 275 I think threw a DP single.
Car traped at 136 spinning on a 150ish shot out of second...... going to port the heads and intake this winter also.
09-18-2007, 05:37 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by GueSS Who
Unless you are restricted to one stage like lots of true 10.5 racing rules specify. Then you run a 3-500 single stage with a controller......Problem with a controller is
It still opens fully so the torque is still there, even if it is coming on and off really fast. We ran a car on the dyno with a NOS digital controller at 50% total and then the next run we stepped it up to 100%....It made the same hp and tq it was just alittle choopier with 50% on.......I race a car in True street and we can put the controller on 35-100% of a 350 shot in 1.2 secs and it goes the same exact 60ft as 75-100% in 1.0.....See what I am saying...... You really have to work the controller to get the effects you want out of it. With the black camaro I used to race that went 5.56 had a 2 stage dry kit. Left off 1 stage and grabbed the second one well before the 60ft. But the 1st stage had enough fuel in it to compensate for the 2nd stage and also had enough timing pulled for the second stage when I left off the brake also. so it wasn't making a billion tq off the brake....To much fuel and not enough timing kills the torque, which made for a 1.29 60ft on radials.......I have 2 stage on my car and BS3 contols everything.
It still opens fully so the torque is still there, even if it is coming on and off really fast. We ran a car on the dyno with a NOS digital controller at 50% total and then the next run we stepped it up to 100%....It made the same hp and tq it was just alittle choopier with 50% on.......I race a car in True street and we can put the controller on 35-100% of a 350 shot in 1.2 secs and it goes the same exact 60ft as 75-100% in 1.0.....See what I am saying...... You really have to work the controller to get the effects you want out of it. With the black camaro I used to race that went 5.56 had a 2 stage dry kit. Left off 1 stage and grabbed the second one well before the 60ft. But the 1st stage had enough fuel in it to compensate for the 2nd stage and also had enough timing pulled for the second stage when I left off the brake also. so it wasn't making a billion tq off the brake....To much fuel and not enough timing kills the torque, which made for a 1.29 60ft on radials.......I have 2 stage on my car and BS3 contols everything.
informative post..... thanks...
do you have more information on this. Such as the graphs?
I am going to run a single 300 with a controller.... I wanted to leave at a 150 shot and hit 300 right after the second gear shift... progressive of course with a window switch.
04-27-2008, 11:13 PM
#50
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this is some good info. I ran a progressive a few years back and I loved it. For street racing I was able to dial my traction right in on street tires and drag radials. At the track I was able to get very aggressive with the ramp of the nitrous. I will be using a progressive again on a 300 shot. I won't be spraying the car every weekend so I think that I should be good till the end of the season and then I will have them rebuilt.
04-30-2008, 09:13 AM
#54
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Starting at 50% and ramping to 100% over 1.5 seconds will cycle the solenoids less than 15 times total.
The thing to remember about a progressive is it is a traction control device not HP control. For HP control multiple stages is the best bet.
I run a 2-300 shot single stage progressive on my 94. This is done because the class I want to run only allows a single stage plate system but has no HP max. And we must run a 275/60-15 drag radial. The top cars in this class run 5.5x 1/8 mile times.
04-30-2008, 07:16 PM
#55
Most progressives set the solenoids to pulse 12-15 times per second....50% would be 6-8 times.
Starting at 50% and ramping to 100% over 1.5 seconds will cycle the solenoids less than 15 times total.
The thing to remember about a progressive is it is a traction control device not HP control. For HP control multiple stages is the best bet.
I run a 2-300 shot single stage progressive on my 94. This is done because the class I want to run only allows a single stage plate system but has no HP max. And we must run a 275/60-15 drag radial. The top cars in this class run 5.5x 1/8 mile times.
Starting at 50% and ramping to 100% over 1.5 seconds will cycle the solenoids less than 15 times total.
The thing to remember about a progressive is it is a traction control device not HP control. For HP control multiple stages is the best bet.
I run a 2-300 shot single stage progressive on my 94. This is done because the class I want to run only allows a single stage plate system but has no HP max. And we must run a 275/60-15 drag radial. The top cars in this class run 5.5x 1/8 mile times.
Robert
05-01-2008, 10:15 AM
#56
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Hey Ray, can you give us an example of your bettered 60' times. Man, i am willing to try this out if I can get my 60's down as that's the biggest hurdle to running fast times with the IRS. I think the old Digi timer works about the same, what's your take on that? My plans were to run a timer on my first stage to get me out a couple feet before hammering down mega hard.
Robert
Robert
I use a combination of delay, start %, and ramp time to help control wheel spin.
If the car hooks on motor but spins when the nitrous comes in no matter how low you have the start %, you need to increase delay. If the car hooks when the nitrous comes in but starts to spin during the ramp, you increase ramp time.
With multiple stages, you just adjust the delay for each stage.
Ideally you would like to hit everything right out of the gate. If track prep is there I set everything to 100% and 0 delay.
03-19-2009, 10:05 AM
#57
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I like the progressive, I have ran mine for 3 years with no trouble. Both would be best, progressive first stage for ideal launch and second stage for when you need it. I love the adjustability of the progressive unit, I simply turn a dial and hit a button depending who pulls up next to me "at the track of course...."
03-19-2009, 10:54 AM
#58
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This resoning just doesn't work. All kits noids should be rebuilt after a season of use, just preventative maintance, this will likely minimize problems. However, the catch 22 for this to work on progressive controlled noids would be to have them rebuilt after every single run. Progressive controllers have been out for years, there is a reason that serious racers do not use them. Like Koolraz said, in therory they are great, but in reality less than optimum.
Robert
Robert
Almost everyone that races in one of our local 275 drag radial classes runs a progressive kit. The fastest times were in the 5.30's & .40's. We were there trying to get my buddies single stage 200 shot to hook and had no luck at all. These guys were flying on a small tire and the progressive kit.
03-19-2009, 12:36 PM
#59
I'll take a shot at explaining what I see as one the design flaws in the progressive controllers. first of all there is no offset available to allow the fuel noid to open first. No matter how close the fuel is to the jets on a direct port the fuel takes longer to fill the rails and lines than the nitrous. Yes I know you can move the nitrous noid away from the rail to even it out on the initial hit, but then when the run is over you have all that nitrous in the rails and the extra lines to boils off. Your just trading the lean spike to the end from the begining.
You should check out the HSW MicroEdge controller. This is straight off of HSW's description of the product:
Nitrous Solenoid Delay – Delays the nitrous solenoid from being activated for an amount of time after the kit is activated. This helps to cure any lean spike issues that are pre-existing in the system.
