Dyno today at HiTech Motorsport!
07-16-2007, 11:32 PM
#23
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Im not going to bother reading all the replys. Ill step in to address Ms Eliz concerns about the 10:1 a/f ratio.
The a/f was left at 10:1 for a couple reasons..
First of all being I am never comfortable pushing a stock bottom end LS1 much beyond the 500rwhp point. Since these pulls were made with the bottle pressure in the 800-850psi range, as pressure goes up the vehicle is only going to get leaner. Also if you notice there is the typical lean spike on the initial hit. This system has a bit more agressive lean spike than many others, and without going to a delay relay on the nitrous soliniod to correct that, leaning out the remainder of the curve would push that lean spike even further. Into a range that would be very dangerous for the cylinder pressures being created at that RPM. On top of that, it would also likely put it into knock retard that it would not recover from, making any gains from leaning the vehicle out moot due to the timing being pulled from the initial lean spike..
Someone pointed out that the actual a/f may be below 10:1. I assure you that there is no way that it is remotely close to 8:1, or even that much below 10:1, as you can see the power curve is quite smooth. A condition pushing the a/f into the 8s, or even deep into the 9s would have caused a rich missfire. I used my experiance in dynoing 100s of nitrous equiped vehicles to rationalize that the a/f ratio is in fact very close to 10:1, and likely at higher bottle pressure easily in the high 10s.
On a vehicle that is having the stock bottom end pushed near its limits, I am more than content leaving it rich, and safe. If it would have been getting a rich missfire, that would have been a differant story, and the condition would have been addressed..
But for now, the nitrous tune is excessivly safe, poses no potencial to cause any damage, and makes the power that Ms Eliz was shooting for.
Liz,
I am always conservite, as you know as I was the one that talked you out of the 150shot.. Your going to hear people talking about how they have made well over 500rwhp and never had an issue pushing you to try and get more, but I leave you with this lil piece of advice....
If the conversation ever has the phrase "got away with it" (such as, 'well I got away with making 550rwhp with not problems', 'Jimmy robbed that liquer store and got away with it') it usualy not a good idea.
The a/f was left at 10:1 for a couple reasons..
First of all being I am never comfortable pushing a stock bottom end LS1 much beyond the 500rwhp point. Since these pulls were made with the bottle pressure in the 800-850psi range, as pressure goes up the vehicle is only going to get leaner. Also if you notice there is the typical lean spike on the initial hit. This system has a bit more agressive lean spike than many others, and without going to a delay relay on the nitrous soliniod to correct that, leaning out the remainder of the curve would push that lean spike even further. Into a range that would be very dangerous for the cylinder pressures being created at that RPM. On top of that, it would also likely put it into knock retard that it would not recover from, making any gains from leaning the vehicle out moot due to the timing being pulled from the initial lean spike..
Someone pointed out that the actual a/f may be below 10:1. I assure you that there is no way that it is remotely close to 8:1, or even that much below 10:1, as you can see the power curve is quite smooth. A condition pushing the a/f into the 8s, or even deep into the 9s would have caused a rich missfire. I used my experiance in dynoing 100s of nitrous equiped vehicles to rationalize that the a/f ratio is in fact very close to 10:1, and likely at higher bottle pressure easily in the high 10s.
On a vehicle that is having the stock bottom end pushed near its limits, I am more than content leaving it rich, and safe. If it would have been getting a rich missfire, that would have been a differant story, and the condition would have been addressed..
But for now, the nitrous tune is excessivly safe, poses no potencial to cause any damage, and makes the power that Ms Eliz was shooting for.
Liz,
I am always conservite, as you know as I was the one that talked you out of the 150shot.. Your going to hear people talking about how they have made well over 500rwhp and never had an issue pushing you to try and get more, but I leave you with this lil piece of advice....
If the conversation ever has the phrase "got away with it" (such as, 'well I got away with making 550rwhp with not problems', 'Jimmy robbed that liquer store and got away with it') it usualy not a good idea.
Last edited by Sweet35th; 07-16-2007 at 11:39 PM.
07-19-2007, 12:30 AM
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Wut more needs to be done to the stock bottem end of an ls1 to exceed the 500rwhp in your opinion. I too am very conservative with things. Im spraying a 100 wet shot and am curious as to what I should look into far down the road.
07-19-2007, 06:43 AM
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Hi Bird 2002!
I'm not sure if Casey or Bart at Hi Tech monitors this board daily or not. I'm very happy to see Casey's thoughts in his post (Sweet35th) sure makes me feel better about my AFR and reconfirms my not going to big on the juice!
These guys at High Tech are first class and will have your answer but you may need to give them a call. They are also a supporting vendor here on LS1 Tech so you could e-mail them or call them direct.
Are you going to the Car Craft Summer Nationals this week end? I'm going to look at the bling.
Good luck!
Ms Eliz
I'm not sure if Casey or Bart at Hi Tech monitors this board daily or not. I'm very happy to see Casey's thoughts in his post (Sweet35th) sure makes me feel better about my AFR and reconfirms my not going to big on the juice!
These guys at High Tech are first class and will have your answer but you may need to give them a call. They are also a supporting vendor here on LS1 Tech so you could e-mail them or call them direct.
Are you going to the Car Craft Summer Nationals this week end? I'm going to look at the bling.
Good luck!
Ms Eliz
07-19-2007, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ms Eliz
Thanks for checking in on me Beer and Robert, I appreciate your thoughts!
Wow, what a day yesterday was! Truely an emotional rollercoaster. I paced back and forth just like I imagine a father would waiting for a baby to be born. The full gamit of stress, joy then worry then second doubts.... wondering if I was going to have a healthy baby or not. Watching the doctor do his thing and not really knowing what the issues were, and there were issues. I could tell the way my tuners were consulting each other and rapidly entering and leaving the delivery room. Updates came on occassion, the passers by giving me a pat on the back laughing saying everything would turn out right. You get the picture...I was a total pain in the ***! LOL!
Anyway, It took about 2.5 hours and 15 Dyno pulls to get the NA tune dialed in. Apparently some kind of 20% fuel compensation issue was occuring that they said was way out of acceptable parameters. They searched for vacumn leaks but couldn't find any...this was a very time consuming endevor, this is the most stressful time, I was so worried with thinking we'd never get to the N20. Finally when Casey (my tuner) asked the wizard Brian about the issue, Brian said change the injector size in the software and that should do the trick. It worked! Finally the AFR was where Casey wanted it to be. 382RWHP/371RWT NA! My only mod is a K&N CAI.
Everyone in the shop says "I have a overachiever" when speaking about my NA dyno pulls.
Now on to the N20! I had installed Daves recommended 52/33 jets in stage one for a 100 shot, and Daves recommended 62/38 jets in stage two for a 150 shot. NO I WASN'T going to spray both at the same time LOL! I decided I'd like to have two options and run the stages as just different size shots rather than using it as a staged system. This way I could pick and chose the amount I wanted during a specefic situation. And I always have the option of changing at the track. I have 1st locked out and have been hooking pretty well in 2nd during this hot weather recently on the street.
First N20 pull, BIG AND LOTS OF SPARKS FLYING OFF THE RIGHT COIL BANK! I had used the valve cover/coil mount bolt as a ground. We fixed that in short order by changing the ground wire location, but still it had been a good run and met my 505RWHP goal on the nose! We started a 150 pull but went way lean, apparently I have a switch or wire issue because my system didn't deliver. We abandoned stage two. We discussed changing jets in the first stage so we could try the larger shot, but most folks at Hi Tech feel stuff starts breaking with anymore than the 505 I already hit. So, we wrapped up the MsEliz Dyno Day!
After thoughts...
I wish I would have had Casey adjust the AFR on the N20, it was 10/1 at 900 lbs in the bottle. He said it would probably lean out if I ran a higher bottle pressure. I had my heater on for a hour last night out playing in the street and never got above 950lbs. in the bottle. When I hit the N20 I'm getting a big puff of black behind me too. Fouled plugs in my future?
I'm going to try to attach a image here of the runs...I'll also e-mail to Beer in case I don't get it posted correctly.
Please share your thoughts!
Ms Eliz
Wow, what a day yesterday was! Truely an emotional rollercoaster. I paced back and forth just like I imagine a father would waiting for a baby to be born. The full gamit of stress, joy then worry then second doubts.... wondering if I was going to have a healthy baby or not. Watching the doctor do his thing and not really knowing what the issues were, and there were issues. I could tell the way my tuners were consulting each other and rapidly entering and leaving the delivery room. Updates came on occassion, the passers by giving me a pat on the back laughing saying everything would turn out right. You get the picture...I was a total pain in the ***! LOL!
Anyway, It took about 2.5 hours and 15 Dyno pulls to get the NA tune dialed in. Apparently some kind of 20% fuel compensation issue was occuring that they said was way out of acceptable parameters. They searched for vacumn leaks but couldn't find any...this was a very time consuming endevor, this is the most stressful time, I was so worried with thinking we'd never get to the N20. Finally when Casey (my tuner) asked the wizard Brian about the issue, Brian said change the injector size in the software and that should do the trick. It worked! Finally the AFR was where Casey wanted it to be. 382RWHP/371RWT NA! My only mod is a K&N CAI.
Everyone in the shop says "I have a overachiever" when speaking about my NA dyno pulls.
Now on to the N20! I had installed Daves recommended 52/33 jets in stage one for a 100 shot, and Daves recommended 62/38 jets in stage two for a 150 shot. NO I WASN'T going to spray both at the same time LOL! I decided I'd like to have two options and run the stages as just different size shots rather than using it as a staged system. This way I could pick and chose the amount I wanted during a specefic situation. And I always have the option of changing at the track. I have 1st locked out and have been hooking pretty well in 2nd during this hot weather recently on the street.
First N20 pull, BIG AND LOTS OF SPARKS FLYING OFF THE RIGHT COIL BANK! I had used the valve cover/coil mount bolt as a ground. We fixed that in short order by changing the ground wire location, but still it had been a good run and met my 505RWHP goal on the nose! We started a 150 pull but went way lean, apparently I have a switch or wire issue because my system didn't deliver. We abandoned stage two. We discussed changing jets in the first stage so we could try the larger shot, but most folks at Hi Tech feel stuff starts breaking with anymore than the 505 I already hit. So, we wrapped up the MsEliz Dyno Day!
After thoughts...
I wish I would have had Casey adjust the AFR on the N20, it was 10/1 at 900 lbs in the bottle. He said it would probably lean out if I ran a higher bottle pressure. I had my heater on for a hour last night out playing in the street and never got above 950lbs. in the bottle. When I hit the N20 I'm getting a big puff of black behind me too. Fouled plugs in my future?
I'm going to try to attach a image here of the runs...I'll also e-mail to Beer in case I don't get it posted correctly.
Please share your thoughts!
Ms Eliz
07-20-2007, 07:05 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by 1MEANGTO
Hey I built Hitechs new shop. I was the general contractor there. Casey is a great guy!! Woohoo for casey. If you would like and don't wish to take it back for more dyno pulls I have a wideband and all tuning software needed (as well as jets if needed) If you'd like any help. FREE OF COURSE to all my local ls1 friends. Casey and I are good friends he is really a great tuner.
I'm thrilled with Hi Tech! That shop really is over the top!
Casey gave me some info the other day so I better understand what's going on when I spray. Seems like right now all I need to worry about is keeping the bottle full! My goodness it goes quick
!
07-23-2007, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ms Eliz
Wow! That is a great offer, I appreciate all the help from the LS1 Tech fella's. I couldn't have done all this fun stuff without the knowledge provided right here.
I'm thrilled with Hi Tech! That shop really is over the top! Casey gave me some info the other day so I better understand what's going on when I spray. Seems like right now all I need to worry about is keeping the bottle full! My goodness it goes quick !
I'm thrilled with Hi Tech! That shop really is over the top!
Casey gave me some info the other day so I better understand what's going on when I spray. Seems like right now all I need to worry about is keeping the bottle full! My goodness it goes quick !Oh you should come out and play with all of us sometime we're always at porky's on the weekend and at apple valley at least thursdays.
08-01-2007, 05:31 PM
#38
MS Eliz,
Glad to see you got it up and going. I did not read all the above. I did see where you said that the airfuel was 10.1. That is way to rich. you are taking a chance of washing the cylinders running it that rich. I would lean it out to 11.8. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks
Dave
Glad to see you got it up and going. I did not read all the above. I did see where you said that the airfuel was 10.1. That is way to rich. you are taking a chance of washing the cylinders running it that rich. I would lean it out to 11.8. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks
Dave
08-10-2007, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SY732
Hey Casey its Kris its been a long time, I cant believe you still have the stang I sold the Syclone when I moved to Vegas, how are things at porkeys?
I sill talk to Mark and a few others... anyway I have the same plate kit on my C6 I was also at 10:1 and thought it could not be richer, but a few 02's later and getting logworks to work I found out I was 9:1 and I was at 1100 psi most of the time, anyway I took 10% fuel out of the tune and jetted way down now 52 28 was still rich 10:7 - 11:0 NA / spray, I wanted some of the fuel comming from the injectors for 7 and 8.
I sill talk to Mark and a few others... anyway I have the same plate kit on my C6 I was also at 10:1 and thought it could not be richer, but a few 02's later and getting logworks to work I found out I was 9:1 and I was at 1100 psi most of the time, anyway I took 10% fuel out of the tune and jetted way down now 52 28 was still rich 10:7 - 11:0 NA / spray, I wanted some of the fuel comming from the injectors for 7 and 8.
I have done a few dozen nitrous set ups on LSX cars, and can assure everyone that this car is bouncing right at 10:1.
Regardless, since a few people seem so sure (without ever being there) that it is more than 10:1. I will put MsLizs car back on the dyno and jet it down on the fuel side for her for free.
08-10-2007, 10:11 PM
#40
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Ms Eliz, my setup is done 
Was 340 Baseline W/ LT Headers, LS6 intake, Shaner TB, Beer EFI Live Tuned
417 after the Heads and Cam.
Here is the two stage (Dry and wet plate combo
)
AFR in the low to Mid 11's
Was 340 Baseline W/ LT Headers, LS6 intake, Shaner TB, Beer EFI Live Tuned
417 after the Heads and Cam.
Here is the two stage (Dry and wet plate combo
) AFR in the low to Mid 11's