What's the result of a 300 shot w/ TR6's & 26 degrees timing? What about a 200 shot?
11-05-2007, 12:49 PM
#41
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That was one of his problems, he listened to them too much. I would be pissed at those dambass's. Obviously they don't have clue as to what they are doing.
26* of timing on a 300 shot+tr6's. 
I'm not one of your biggest fans Mikey, but I feel for you. I would'nt want this to happen to anyone. Last edited by pitchblackZ; 11-05-2007 at 12:54 PM.
11-05-2007, 01:53 PM
#42
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robert, for what its worth, the plugs didnt do that. the plugs being a hotter plug will melt sooner yes, but at that point letting off the gas would prevent damage. a hotter plug with the right monitering and driver is accually good. you can feel the car nose over, and lift. if you can get a hot plug to last, a cold one is even better.
everyone says i need to run 8's on motor ect ect, i run 6's with no issues and over 30* of timming.
everyone says i need to run 8's on motor ect ect, i run 6's with no issues and over 30* of timming.
11-05-2007, 01:56 PM
#43
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I doubt it.... either it is a valve issue.... or it is a ringland. The bearings should be okay. I checked all the rocker arms... they looked alright. It does have a loud pop on startup...... hopefully it is not the bottom end... but I doubt it wont be. 
I have 8's in it now... a little too late huh? The standalone has plenty of gas in it.
I have 8's in it now... a little too late huh? The standalone has plenty of gas in it.
11-05-2007, 02:02 PM
#44
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Lets see:
Tuning a car in Speed density with no wideband
Telling him it was okay to start off with Tr6 plugs
Putting 300 pills in it without making it clear...
THe list goes on and on.
11-05-2007, 02:28 PM
#45
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that was 100% my fault..........
he tuned it with plans to get a wideband on the car..... his cable was stolen. He did the idle and hit it on the dyno in SD....... it was fine in SD at WOT.... but the lower tables, AE, etc needed the WB to be done correctly. That is why he put the maf on in the long run after we realized we wouldnt have a WB to do a full SD tune. I ran Jeremy in his 414 with only a partial SD tune...... I told him I would run him and didnt want to be a liar.
11-05-2007, 02:42 PM
#46
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Good luck with it man. It sucks to have to start all over again after waiting and spending all that cash I am sure. Leak that bitch and find out whats going on for sure. Glad I did recently and found out the problem before I trashed my block. You hay be one crank away from that pig puking and taking everything out. Quit it.
11-05-2007, 02:57 PM
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Good luck with it man. It sucks to have to start all over again after waiting and spending all that cash I am sure. Leak that bitch and find out whats going on for sure. Glad I did recently and found out the problem before I trashed my block. You hay be one crank away from that pig puking and taking everything out. Quit it.
I will try to get ahold of the shop and see if they can leak it in the driveway.... vs towing it there then towing back to its new home in my driveway for the next year if it is toasted.... I might just borrow a car hauler
11-05-2007, 05:01 PM
#50
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As the shop doing the work (if that was me) I would have turned you down for one making the request to tune speed density without a wideband in the first place. Second, no customer will ever tell me how to tune or attempt to the motor that does nothing but read the internet and listen to what the internet tells them to do. You will be sent elsewhere and charged double or triple when its brought back to fix the problems like the one that you have now.
I dont care who people think they are on the internet or how well they copied this such and such setup there are small tricks and details that are always left out that will make or break the setup. In this case break it! The standalone setup should have never even been attempted by rookies that have never had a nitrous setup worth a flip much less anything else from that place. Labor shops are just that...Labor only. ANd on top of that its basic labor. That setup should have been done low pressure and flowed before even setting car out the door. Its really a shame to see the blind leading the blind here. But you get what you ask for and without a bottle gauge at all on the car, you were playing with fire and ignorance the whole time!
I dont care who people think they are on the internet or how well they copied this such and such setup there are small tricks and details that are always left out that will make or break the setup. In this case break it! The standalone setup should have never even been attempted by rookies that have never had a nitrous setup worth a flip much less anything else from that place. Labor shops are just that...Labor only. ANd on top of that its basic labor. That setup should have been done low pressure and flowed before even setting car out the door. Its really a shame to see the blind leading the blind here. But you get what you ask for and without a bottle gauge at all on the car, you were playing with fire and ignorance the whole time!
11-05-2007, 05:08 PM
#51
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My 250 directport stock block read like this:
# 7 plugs gap .028
116 octane in the fuel cell
93 in the tank
18-22 max timing
progressive controller
window switched 3000-6500
# 7 plugs gap .028
116 octane in the fuel cell
93 in the tank
18-22 max timing
progressive controller
window switched 3000-6500
11-05-2007, 05:11 PM
#52
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I am sure putting the 109 in didnt help... hot gas, hot plug, hotlapped on a full bottle, and 26 degrees of timing = BOOM!
11-05-2007, 05:49 PM
#53
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As the shop doing the work (if that was me) I would have turned you down for one making the request to tune speed density without a wideband in the first place. Second, no customer will ever tell me how to tune or attempt to the motor that does nothing but read the internet and listen to what the internet tells them to do. You will be sent elsewhere and charged double or triple when its brought back to fix the problems like the one that you have now.
I dont care who people think they are on the internet or how well they copied this such and such setup there are small tricks and details that are always left out that will make or break the setup. In this case break it! The standalone setup should have never even been attempted by rookies that have never had a nitrous setup worth a flip much less anything else from that place. Labor shops are just that...Labor only. ANd on top of that its basic labor. That setup should have been done low pressure and flowed before even setting car out the door. Its really a shame to see the blind leading the blind here. But you get what you ask for and without a bottle gauge at all on the car, you were playing with fire and ignorance the whole time!
I dont care who people think they are on the internet or how well they copied this such and such setup there are small tricks and details that are always left out that will make or break the setup. In this case break it! The standalone setup should have never even been attempted by rookies that have never had a nitrous setup worth a flip much less anything else from that place. Labor shops are just that...Labor only. ANd on top of that its basic labor. That setup should have been done low pressure and flowed before even setting car out the door. Its really a shame to see the blind leading the blind here. But you get what you ask for and without a bottle gauge at all on the car, you were playing with fire and ignorance the whole time!
11-05-2007, 06:15 PM
#54
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That setup should have been done low pressure and flowed before even setting car out the door. Its really a shame to see the blind leading the blind here. But you get what you ask for and without a bottle gauge at all on the car, you were playing with fire and ignorance the whole time!
Mickey..This was your first **** up....We have all made mistakes. You need to figure **** out for your own damn self and stop asking people how it works. You will never have a fast car if you don't know how it is supposed to be fast. I have broken every part on my car probably a couple of times. I have found out what doesn't work way more then what does. Just keep on trucking and figure it out. Take is slow and relax alittle. Don't take your car out to race Jeremy if it is not 100%. Stop being dumb and save some money. If you don't you are going to be in a world of hurt, cause this business is super expensive to play in.
11-05-2007, 06:30 PM
#55
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Might have just messed up a valve but don't keep cranking it you might drop it or have it get wedged in the head.
I'm running 8's in the Camaro spray or motor, the heat ranges won't make that much of a difference IMO. But if I sprayed it say 250 I'd run 20 degrees of timing at the most, some race gas too.
In the turbo Formy I last ran 8's, 112 leaded, and went 9.4@144 with some mechanical issues. Next time at the track I'll be on 8's, C16, and 25 lbs of boost (sunday).
I'm running 8's in the Camaro spray or motor, the heat ranges won't make that much of a difference IMO. But if I sprayed it say 250 I'd run 20 degrees of timing at the most, some race gas too.
In the turbo Formy I last ran 8's, 112 leaded, and went 9.4@144 with some mechanical issues. Next time at the track I'll be on 8's, C16, and 25 lbs of boost (sunday).
11-05-2007, 07:19 PM
#56
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Mickey..This was your first **** up....We have all made mistakes. You need to figure **** out for your own damn self and stop asking people how it works. You will never have a fast car if you don't know how it is supposed to be fast. I have broken every part on my car probably a couple of times. I have found out what doesn't work way more then what does. Just keep on trucking and figure it out. Take is slow and relax alittle. Don't take your car out to race Jeremy if it is not 100%. Stop being dumb and save some money. If you don't you are going to be in a world of hurt, cause this business is super expensive to play in.
thanks
11-05-2007, 08:22 PM
#57
Not to nitpick, but that's backwards: detonation led to pre ignition
pre-ignition is what breaks parts instantly. Detonation (2nd ignition after the plug fires) causes hot spots (ground straps, carbon deposits, etc) in the combustion chamber which in turn pre-ignites the charge while the piston is starting to move up (usually ~180 deg. BTDC) causing massive cylinder pressures.
But that's a bit off topic..
Having never done what the OP suggested I can't offer any personal advise, but I was only running 23 deg on a 150 shot w/ tr6's. Take the fast guys advise, they know what they're talking about.
pre-ignition is what breaks parts instantly. Detonation (2nd ignition after the plug fires) causes hot spots (ground straps, carbon deposits, etc) in the combustion chamber which in turn pre-ignites the charge while the piston is starting to move up (usually ~180 deg. BTDC) causing massive cylinder pressures.
But that's a bit off topic..
Having never done what the OP suggested I can't offer any personal advise, but I was only running 23 deg on a 150 shot w/ tr6's. Take the fast guys advise, they know what they're talking about.
This is a response in my thread where I blew my stock motor, I contended that pre ignition led to detonation and this is a response. Now wether it did or not on my motor, the point to be made here is to clarify pre ignition from detonation. Al where ya at, your good at explaining this stuff?
It can lead there depending on how early it starts. Obviously pre-ignition closer to TDC will result in detonation, but based upon the damage, I dont see signs of detonation.
Many people confuse pre-ignition and detonation, but they are entirely different processes. Detonation is purely related to abnormal combustion after the spark plug has fired whereby flame front travel is disorderly and erratic. You end up with outer layers of unburnt A/F igniting spontaneously before the original flame front ever meets it to continue orderly combustion.
Contrary to popular belief, detonation isn't the immediate killer of engines. In many cases, detonation can continue for a prolonged time with little noticeable damage.
With pre-ignition, we are talking about ignition before the spark plug is ever fired. This is the reason why a motor which is pre-igniting may result in power loss and no audible pinging. The more degrees away from top-dead-center the piston is when the pre-ignition occurs, the less opportunity for detonation, and the more heat generated.
In a case where pre-ignition happens to ignitethe mixture 30 deg before-top-dead-center then you can get detonation because now we have combustion started right before the compression stroke and before the spark plug fires creating another flame front.
Hope that explains things a little better.
Tony
Many people confuse pre-ignition and detonation, but they are entirely different processes. Detonation is purely related to abnormal combustion after the spark plug has fired whereby flame front travel is disorderly and erratic. You end up with outer layers of unburnt A/F igniting spontaneously before the original flame front ever meets it to continue orderly combustion.
Contrary to popular belief, detonation isn't the immediate killer of engines. In many cases, detonation can continue for a prolonged time with little noticeable damage.
With pre-ignition, we are talking about ignition before the spark plug is ever fired. This is the reason why a motor which is pre-igniting may result in power loss and no audible pinging. The more degrees away from top-dead-center the piston is when the pre-ignition occurs, the less opportunity for detonation, and the more heat generated.
In a case where pre-ignition happens to ignitethe mixture 30 deg before-top-dead-center then you can get detonation because now we have combustion started right before the compression stroke and before the spark plug fires creating another flame front.
Hope that explains things a little better.
Tony
11-05-2007, 10:00 PM
#58
I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Not trying to argue, but if it is before the ignition process it is not detonation, it is pre ignition, two seperate things. Detonation is like hitting the top of the piston with a hammer, relatively short pressure spikes and happens after igntion. I'm no expert and don't really read many books on this, but I thought I had a pretty firm grasp on these two things.
Actually it looks like your motor might not have been in pre-ignition, just bad detonation.
There's some good info HERE. Posts 2,3,4, & 5 pertain to the subject at hand.
Actually it looks like your motor might not have been in pre-ignition, just bad detonation.
There's some good info HERE. Posts 2,3,4, & 5 pertain to the subject at hand.
11-05-2007, 11:35 PM
#60
I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Not trying to argue, but if it is before the ignition process it is not detonation, it is pre ignition, two seperate things. Detonation is like hitting the top of the piston with a hammer, relatively short pressure spikes and happens after igntion. I'm no expert and don't really read many books on this, but I thought I had a pretty firm grasp on these two things.
Actually it looks like your motor might not have been in pre-ignition, just bad detonation.
There's some good info HERE. Posts 2,3,4, & 5 pertain to the subject at hand.
Actually it looks like your motor might not have been in pre-ignition, just bad detonation.
There's some good info HERE. Posts 2,3,4, & 5 pertain to the subject at hand.
Robert