WS6freak

iTrader: (3)

I'll chime in here hoping it won't create any flaming. People in general buy cars with their wallets, for the face price and for the cost of operation and resale figures. I LOVE American cars, that's why I proudly bought and modded my '01 Orange Monster back in 2002.

But today I drive a Lexus LS-460. Why? It's simple - I didn't find anything better for my money. I looked into several German cars and also American cars. This also might sound old but there is absolutely no comparison when it comes to customer service. Now remember, I bought my car in Dec/2006 (a 2007 model) and all this crisis was not yet full blown back then.

I would have happily bought an American made car if I would have found one in the same level of craftsmanship and technology for the price range. I still get 27mph out of a 380hp V-8. I made TWO visits to the dealership for oil changes and software upgrades.

So my pont is, there's no blame game. It's about vision and market myopia. I think this is a great opportunity for the big three to come on top - this is a wakeup call and if they get the message, they'll win, and I will sell my Lexus and buy a (still to be developed) kick *** luxury domestic.

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

I can't say I share your sentiment but to each his own. Since I've been traveling the better last half of this year I've had the "opportunity" to test drive many cars (rentals) and I don't see any significant quality difference between imports & domestics.

The new Malibus are nicer cars than Mazdas or Toyotas IMO AND get better gas mileage. Plus their seats are bigger & more comfortable. And I've yet to drive any car in it's class that is nicer than my wifes Charger. But I must say I did like the Highlander I drove. Not as nice as Chads TB SS tho!

So since the values are similar, for me it comes down to keeping my money at home.

My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

I would totally agree Mark, You knnow Cadillac makes some very nice stuff, that is just as good as Lexus.
In America you can do what you want. I just like to keep it at home too.

WS6freak

iTrader: (3)

I agree with you, but I will tell you how it happened in a few words: I went to a Caddy dealership and I was immediately assaulted by not one, not two, but THREE sales people (I'm talking 12/2006) and one of them shouted "so, are you ready for a Cadillac?" - I was like... dude, back off. So it was not a good start. Needless to say, after a test drive and putting up with a lot of blah blah blah from the sales guy I said thanks, but no thanks.

Then, I go to the Lexus store and after sitting in the car and playing with a few buttons here and there I was approached by a guy in a suit and he said "Hello Sir, my name is ............ We have some drinks and snaks at the waiting area, please feel free to tell that nice lady what you would like and she'll be happy to serve you." And HE WALKED AWAY.

I am not saying this was what made me decide on the Lexi but I think there's a lesson to be learned here.

I also agree with Mark - there's not a big initial difference between the rental cars from here and from Japan. But when you put 5 to 7 years of ownership on each one of those, it's easy to spot the differences.

As of right now, just saw the news on the approval on the billions for the automakers. I really hope they put it to good use before inflation kicks in (because it will). And I am very positive when it comes to the big three - I think they will recover and they will win this battle - and I will be at their door with my checkbook when the time is right.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Yes... You would have bought a Kia if a latte and whole grain muffin served by a nice lady came with it.

Sounds like a lame *** excuse for buying a Lexus. Hey you bought what you wanted and should not be faulted for it. Thats the bottom line.

Friggin sales pitch or lack there of is the last reason I buy a car. I already know what I want when I get there, its a matter of finding someone I want to deal with.

Todd2001SS

Speaking of dealers, they really hurt the brand, imo. I went to look at the new challenger. I arrive at the dealer looked at the sticker compared it to the online dodge site, and the dealer's advertised sticker, and there was another $10,000 dealer mark up!

What the crap is that all about? I test drove the car, sat down for 5 hours and they would not for go the entire 10 grand- the best I could get them down was 2k of the 10k. Of course they will do anything to get your payment lower like a loan, repeat a loan, over 72 months, lol.

The dealer "We had a guy who bought the 50th (or so)car produced last year and was happy to pay the $10k extra". Do I give a shi_t if there are dumb people in this world??? It is not that special of a car. I was thinking they are in a world of hurt maybe they would be lowering the price-I should think again. They called me the next day and wanted to talk-I never returned their call. $48,000 for the challenger out the door and it was not the srt8.

During the time I was there 2 other people test drove the car, I was the only idiot remaining, thinking I must be in a dream and they can not be for real-wake up it is real.

Stealers hurt the big three in a big way. The manufactures web site should = the price.

I hope the new Camaro does not hit that brick wall (stealer mark up) or Chevy may not sell any.

Sorry for the rant....

fyi...I do own 2 chevys, bought new.

WS6freak

iTrader: (3)

Yes, you and I and perhaps 20% of people who buy cars usually go to a dealership knowing what they want. The other 80% shop around, test drive more than one brand, and hold in their memories the whole experience.

What I tried to say is that customer service is paramount - before, during and after the sale.

Also, there is another reason why the big three are hurting right now. If you look back to 1976-1979 when Carter was president, inflation was huge and the pressure on Reagan to fight for a strong dollar was big. And boy did he fight. By the mid 80s the dollar was very strong and it became very cheap to US consumers to buy goods from other countries. That was the Sony walkman era, honda motorcycles and accords. By the end of the 80s the world has changed with new and fast distribution methods and we all have grown accostumed to cheap products with the addition of China into the mix.

The big three were too slow to react and adapt to these events that took 28 years to unfold. Unfortunately they're paying the price now. Or I should say, we are all paying the price.

NW94Z

When the Challengers first hit showrooms in the area I went to Bill Pierre Dodge in Lake City. They had one of each color available. Black, Silver, Orange. Had to see if the car looked better in person than the boat it is in pictures. That's another topic. Well a 10k markup honestly is to be expected especially in Western Washington. Doesn't mean you should pay it though. Anyway the markup on the car they had in the showroom (black) number 60 something of ~6000 built MSRP'd for 42k and had an Adjusted Market Value sticker of 49K. Yes folks that's a grand total of 92k for a Challenger. The sales guy admitted they didn't expect to get the 92k but I had to wonder what person would have to have that car and begin negotiating at that price. Well I found out a few weeks later at the Kirkland carshow. Sucker had the same Challenger entered in the show and couldn't be happier. He did win trophy though for all his efforts. Not a bad investment, 10's of thousands above MSRP for a $2.50 plastic trophy.

I drive past a Dodge dealer twice every day and see the same three Challengers just sitting without moving. Wonder how high they are marked up.

Todd2001SS

Sorry to keep ranting... I would bet that they could sell 50% more by not making folks mad by doing this. Maybe they make up the 50% by selling less at the mark-up price.

I think it was mentioned eariler-but the upper management with golden parachutes, million dollar saleries etc., is also a bit ridiculous. Private jets, etc., is way to much to allow a ceo to have when the company is going bankrupt...it should be a sliding scale for their pay based on how the company is doing-bankrupt = no pay like the workers, or a reduction. I know the fault is not totally the upper mgmt, and is the economy, but, I would have a tuff time going home sleeping at night with the workers being laid off loosing their homes etc., when they have a lavish livstyle. Then, make it look like they care by driving to Washington DC in a hybrid, not company jet.

I do think there should be a bail-out (I would call it a loan) but with strict plans to pay everything back. Ok sorry again for complaining-I will shut up.

I will be looking at the new Camaro when it hits the showroom.

NW94Z

I'm not advocating Adjusted Market Value markups. Personally the most i would ever pay for a new car is MSRP and i have only done that once. Everything else has been at invoice or below. I think markups are largely responsible for the GTO arriving in the US DOA as well as a complete lack of marketing.

The big three, actually GM and Chrysler have been granted a 17.4 billion dollar loan as of yesterday with the funds that were originally slated for the financial institutions. There are strings attached and they need to show real progress by March first if any more aid is going to happen. IMO this money was made available largely to get GM and Chrysler out of W's lap and into Obama's. Bush didn't want the bankruptcy filing on his watch. Strictly opinion here guys.

In the mean time saleable 5th Gen Camaro's are rolling of the assembly line as we speak. Ok maybe not during the weekends yet but initial production runs have begun. Pilot runs have been completed. February 16 normal production begins and by March YOU will be able to see a new Camaro on the showroom floor but your going to have to move fast because I don;t think they will sit for long, at least for the first couple of months.

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

I know what you mean Todd, I don't get it either. If they are hurting that bad, why aren't they dealing more? The Msvl dealer had the same kind of mark-up on Chargers when we went looking....ended up buying at Lynnwood Dodge for under sticker (trying to compete with the guy in Idaho). They are no longer in business sadly.

The mgr at Robinson Chevy promised me a good deal on a Camaro when they come out. (Black SS? ) We'll see.

Todd2001SS

At Roy Robinson they gave me the listed price for my old Camaro even though they had a secondary dealer sticker. I wasn't even looking for a great deal below the real price, anyways...

So you going to buy a new SS??

I am like you, I will travel out of state if I have to for a fair price. I thought of visiting my parents in Ohio flying out there and driving a new car back if the price was right. I am like 60\40 on buying a new Camaro. I need to see what they look like in person, plus I want to see if the Z28 may come out with a Z06 LS7 I would hat to miss that.