Tidbit

So.. For the intake, I have two options.

1) Reuse and polish/grind the casting out of my old Intake


2) Use this! Slight problem. This is for an Ls3 head. I will need to chuck my Ls1 head and my very cool PRW Shaft mounted rockers…… Ideas n opinions?

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

I can only offer an opinion. I'd toss the ls1 heads and make adjustments as needed. Your entire build thus far looks stellar, and the old intake just does not do the build justice....even polished. But deep down, I'm betting that you already knew that

Mikey 97Z M6

iTrader: (37)

If it were mine I'd ditch the LS1 heads. Unless you plan to run a huge solid roller cam and super high spring pressures, then the shaft mounts are just a waste IMO.

Build looks great so far.

Mike

Tidbit

Nooooooooooo... Why agree with what I was thinking?.. That is just evil!

Ok.. Since I got the intake free.. I guess i could drop a few bones on heads n rockers. Thanks a bunch guys! :/

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

Personally, I'd keep roller tips on whatever head you use. Yeah, they weigh more than the OEM's, but I've personally seen 2 instances of aggressive valve tip wear with mild (.601/.613 and .613/.613) setups that had right at 380lb open pressures. One, we caught in time with 1500 street miles on the clock (abnormal wear was just starting to show) and put on a set of Yella Terras. Problem solved. BTR and Mamo both have quite a bit to say on this, and suggest (BTR at least) a MAX of about a .588 on a street car with stock rockers for longevity. On a race engine, all bets are off as it's all about a lightweight valvetrain and revving considerably higher. Longevity takes a back seat at that point, as maintenance intervals are much more frequent as well.

That's my take on it anyway.

SalvageZ28

iTrader: (4)

Weird I never had issues with stock rockers wearing out the tips of my valves and I had a torquer v3 cam in my camaro and ran also a 228/231 cam with over 600 lift on the other motor I had in the vette. I think its more on how its all setup

SalvageZ28

iTrader: (4)

Nice looking build should scream in that light lil truck

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

All I can say, is that in the 2 instances that I've personally seen...everything was correct. I'm reasonably certain that BTR and Mamo are pretty capable guys as well

The only thing that "might" make a difference that I can think of, is the hardness of the tips on stock valves vs. the hardened/stellite tips on stainless valves. Maybe some kind of variance there? IDK. The stock rocker tips are a hard **** for sure. I just know that the first time I saw it was on a set of REV stainless valves....ground down to the retainers. The second time, a set of Manley HD stainless valves. I also don't like the "scrub" pattern on the higher-lift cams using stock rockers...the roller tips are MUCH more centered on the tip of the valve....near-perfect if you take the time to set them up correctly.

Mikey 97Z M6

iTrader: (37)

Sounds like there were other problems or a fluke situation. The stock rockers have been around for far too long and on countless numbers of high lift cam setups to discount the problem as a rocker or geometry issue. GM did their homework on them and they are plenty good for up to at least .630 lift. The only weakness they hqve is the stock bearings which can be replaced easily enough with aftermarket bearings. If there were issues with wear than I would look at valve spring pressures, improper pushrod length or weak tips on the valves, all of which are WAY more common. Also, open pressure could be good but if the seat pressure isn't up to par then that could also be a serious issue. Roller tips won't prevent or make that problem go away either as I've had a set of Crower stainless rockers flatten out a ROLLER tip on an LT1 from too weak of a seat pressure but the open pressure checked out fine. Fact.

I have found the stock GM LS stuff to work plenty good for 99% of the street cammed setups. I have also found that most of the people having issues with the stock LS stuff end up finding other issues that initially caused their problems. I have also found that you can't believe everything you read or see on the internet or reality TV lol....

Mike

Tidbit

I'm still going roller tip

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

Not trying to start a pissing match, or Hi-jack the thread...but curious as to what valves you were using. Weekend warrior, or DD? It seems to me that a lot of guys touting the stock rockers in hi-lift scenarios don't actually drive them a hell of a lot. I'm not saying that fits YOUR situation, but this is just an observation that I've made while looking into this. Weekend track passes are a bit different than daily beatings, IMHO. I've got 30k on a roller tip setup now that I flog DAILY while logging almost 200 miles/day. Last check, no abnormal wear.

Spring installation on the 2 setups that I ran into were right in the 380 range @1.180, and 150-ish @1.80....verified on my spring scale. I can't recall what bind was, but it was at least .080 away as I remember. While I suppose it's possible, I'm just having a hard time believing it to be a fluke incident on 2 different setups that were verified for lifter preload and installed height/pressures. Either way you look at it, the "scrub" pattern on the stockers looks like crap...even shimmed... compared to properly set-up roller tips.

If you want to PM me and continue this away from the thread, feel free. Sorry for clogging up the OP's thread.

Mikey 97Z M6

iTrader: (37)

This is an open forum and we are having a conversation about a dilemma the OP had questions about. No need to take this to pm IMO.

Over the last 25 years I've ran just about all the different valve manufactures including Manley, Ferrea, Milodon Rev and probably a few others. The ones I had in the LT1,with Crower rockers happened to be Manley but that was 14 years ago. The Manley's had the best low lift flow bench data than the stockers or Milodons. This was my daily driver and it had Comp 987 springs with a custom cam.

My 387 had L92 heads that I hand ported with Patriot Gold springs and Rev valves. That engine had about 9k hard miles and about 120 quarter mile passes with a 236/236 .615/.615 lift cam stock rockers, TSP pushrods, LS7 lifters. Shifted this at 6800-7000 all day long and trapped about 126 mph, before any weight reductions.

Now this same same valvetrain is on my 370 right down to the LS7 lifters except this cam is a 242/250 .619/.625. No valve tip or rocker tip wear at all. Been on this board for nearly 10 years as well as others and have many friends on here with potent setups that daily drive them including the LS6 engine I built for Tims Camaro several years back. That had a Torquer V3 .64x/.598 lift LS7 lifters and well over 28k miles that was beat on daily, just ask others on here how many beat downs that combo dished out. Tom Wong (personal friend of mine) probably has more installs with high lift cams and stock rockers than anyone northwest of Denver and I don't think he's seen any epidemic of stock rocker problems, including some of his road race customers. This includes all LS platforms LS1,2,3,6,7 L92, LQ4,9.

Now, that being said I think there is a place for shaft rockers with a solid roller cam and high spring pressures. Other than that, when the valvetrain is setup properly the stock rockers work just fine on the street with fairly high lift cams. If you think about how many setups are out there running stock rockers without issue but you see ALL the people post up here that have the "rare" problems, the percentage is actually very very low and usually caused by an error in install like I mentioned earlier. Not saying this is the case every time of course but people need to realize the percentages are really what matter when talking about parts failures.

My .02 on this subject.

Mike

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

So what do you think the chances of poor tip hardening might be? Kinda rare to see it in two different setups I'd imagine....but admittedly, not impossible. I've not yet tried Milodon or Ferrea pieces in any of these setups, but am currently trying to source the Ferrea pieces for a build. EPW seems to not stock the part numbers that I'm after, and SDParts doesn't appear to list them either. Believe me, I'm game for saving a customer the price of a set of shaft-mtd rockers if I believe it to be a viable option for the specific build. So far, I've not had good luck with them on stainless valves and have not been using them.

Mikey 97Z M6

iTrader: (37)

Poor tip hardening never used to or very rarely was a problem. Seems that it is becoming more of an issue but that does not surprise me with all the overseas outsourcing done these days.

Try Richard at West Coast Cylinder Heads. He will usually have just about any Ferrea, Rev valves in just about any LS valve sizes. People talk bad about Rev valves but I've never had an issue with them and I push mine pretty hard.

Mike

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

I'll give him a shot. Thanks.

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

I was about to say, you put the headers on backwards.......

A sneak peek and my setup in progress. I don't think those headers would have worked for me James.



Ron

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

BTW, unless you get the latest YT rockers, it's a crap shoot. My vette broke one. I'm about 400 open. They bust all the time.
The biggest reason we need roller tip rockers is for the aftermarket heads with the bronze guides. Stock rockers scrub more and wear the guides.
Stock heads don't have the issue.

I have no experience with the stock rockers at .600 lift. But I will. Got em on the 5.3. BTR springs, STOCK valves. I did the Comp trunion upgrade as well.

Intakes? Id use the new Holley. Cheaper than new heads, and looks cool. The ProFlow like mine is good as well. I'm on a budget......

Ron

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

Yeah...looks a bit tight in there! Lookin' good though!

There was a design change on the UltraLites a couple of years ago, as they were definitely prone to breakage. I hear what you're saying though...I've heard of breakage with them as well with the old design. So far, I'm 3-for-3 with no issues on the new revision style......knock on wood.

So when ya gonna have that car ready to go, Ron?

Tidbit

http://www.compperformancegroupstore...Category_Code=

Any experience? Not looking at shaft cause the ls3 shaft is outside my budget.

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

The updated design is much beefier.
It's visual. I'm thinking they are no longer "ultra" light!

No one ever comments on the Comp stuff. Probably because for some reason they don't make a 1.7 bolt down for the LS1.

I don't know about LS3 stuff at all. I don't think hardly any folks put those heads on the 5.7......not even sure you can? Isn't the bore too small on the 5.7?

James, in a month or so. I hope.