I think an ideal bracket car would be setup for little or no wheel spin through the selection of the stall converter and tires (as well as the suspension); it would have an automatic transmission set to shift on its own. I think a low rpm high-torque engine would work better than a high revving engine, but that would depend on how fast you wanted to go. I'm probably leaving a lot out but that would be my idea of a bracket car. That's not what I built my car for, and it shows.

 

By your definition, my car is built for bracket racing... It's an automatic, computer controlled tranny that shifts flawlessly every time.. I rarely have traction issues, it runs within .05 of the same time pretty much all the time... it's one of the lighter F-bodies.. hardtop, cloth interior.. but like I said, that's what I bought it for.

I'd probably have more fun with the car if it was a stick.. but on the track, the automatics are the best choice for the brackets.

 

I'm with you...What good would it be to win the CCC at all if it isn't any fun? It's not even worth the points! I say we do Bremerton which is a double points race and that's it...The last one is at Pacific and it is double points too..but like you said..what good is it when it is no fun?...I'd rather lose and be happy than put up with what we did last night...

 

Well i am also Guilty of having a bracket car...and so is my wife. I ran a .034 PACKAGE against Hoover in the second round it looked some thing like this 029 R/T and a 13.265 on a 13.26 dail.

Then we packed up the car and drove 70 miles home

I would ALSO like to note some of those 6-9 second cars that ran last night.....

...DROVE to the Burger master in Bothell after the races tonite Not bad since I know the Vette drives from Auburn

I mean they are not really fast only running 7s or 8s for the most part but they are to fast to run in the CCCA

 

I trailer my car cause #1 I'm too lazy to change tires at track, #2 Don't have much time to even do it there #3 I've got a truck and trailer, might as well use it. Otherwise, I drive my car all over the place and them some.

Brian

 

People trailer for different reasons: distance, fear of breaking, convenience. That, in itself, does not make you a bracket racer or disqualify you. If we try to keep dedicated racecars out of the competition, it's going to take some careful wording and even with well written rules, it won't be perfect. But I think it's worth a try for next year. We can tighten things a little and see how it goes.

 

You're a professional, Ellis. We need to legislate you out of the competition

 

LOL! They have tried I just train better people to fill my shoes


Here is where I am standing right now. I say we skip the next PR race. It will only cost PR about a grand so they wont notice. Our competion will show up in droves to fill our shoes and points. Then do both the Bremerton race AND the final race. We will have had a month to clam down and can start going over places to fill PRs crappy shoes for next year Even if we dont show up a few of our guys will be there because they are still running the show. I know Bill likes our company and not being hung out to dry

Besides it will save me the $100-$150 I spend at every race We had to many Races at PR this year any ways!

 

Ellis
I have too be at PR for those who show up and give away the trophies. I believe we made a commitment and should follow thru until the end of the season. We can have a CCCA meeting in September and discuss the next season but don't just quite when were so close.
I plan on finishing what I started and maybe take most of next year off. We have a good lead now and if some people take the next race off it won't hirt to bad. I finished the points last night and we have 256 with Muscle Car in 2nd at 146. You are tied for 12th with 16 points and have a good chance at one of the top 3 spots at the end of the year. Think about it before the 12th and hope to see you there.

Bill Sallia

 

It would be tough to write it without excluding someone like me, or several of the other cars in our group. I don't daily drive my car, and when I do drive it I'm usually going to the track.

Personally, I think the real solution is to do the driver mod.

That's how NWMA started kicking everyone's asses, and that's how NW F-body turned it around. This seems more like we're trying to handicap everyone to the point that they are amatuer enough to make it anyone's ball game. You're just regulating the best racers out of the competition.

Personally, I would rather get my *** kicked every single week by someone who is really good than have it be easy pickings.

 

It sounds like the night was a mess for half of the racers and half did okay without much issue. Regardless, its been pointed out it might be better to address the issues during off season which is reasonable unless you are not as competitive and really like racing for fun - which PR no longer is most of the time.

For some to even get out there to run it is a long drive and costs more than should really be spent - if you like to race for fun then wouldn't even more issues at the track just make sense to not run?

And the flip side to that would be - if you are spending the time and money to get your car running better each week and season then what good would it do to spend that time and money if you only go to a few races at Bremerton?

Ellis is correct that officials and owners wouldn't care if no one was representing a particular club or didn't show up to race. They know some people are going to race anyway, without a group, leaving room for those who have never been out there to spend their money instead. If every event drew large crowds *then* it would get the attention of the bean counters but that just is not the case with any race or show club in our state.

There are two sides to this fence and I would hope everyone takes some good thought as to which side they would want to be on.

 

None of this has any bearing on me, but I thought I would give my input into your statement. As you state, you have to be there, and you give good, valid reasons why others should too. However, on the note that you (the CCCA) made a commitment, I would also say that by entering an agreement to host the CCC Races, PR also made a commitment to provide:
1) Safe and viable racing conditions within their realm of ability (meaning not waiting for the participants to request postponement when weather conditions, such as sundown, interfere and cause unsafe or unfair conditions)
2) Reasonable time allotment for the CCC Races to take place, without undue rush or overlapping from other events - you pay for the time, you should get it, period.
3) A show of some respect from personnel for paying participants - it doesnt matter how much or how little the money is, it is still money, and bad PR can go a long way.

Having not provided those things - which are assumed in any agreement, no need to be stated - they have as much as backed out on their commitment to the CCCA.

I hope you guys can finish off the season smoothly, and find a better place to host the races for next year

 

I feel ya man. had I not caravaned up there with about 6 people from the group, I NEVER would have had ANY idea what to do, how to do it or where to go to get things done. On top of that place being run by what seemed to be a bunch of power hungry rectal infarctions.
I am not a huge fan of it either, although everyone was telling me to do it if need be to win, which I can totally understand. But to give an example of how jacked up some things can get.......my car (prior to moving here) ran consistent 13.65 @ 105 MPH. 1st run Friday was 13.4 @ 106+ Second run (both dial-in) was a 13.6 @ 108!!! My last run (the actual race) I ran an awful 13.7 @ 108 on a 13.4 dial in. The dude I raced (2nd Gen primered camaro with a lift off cowl hood) had a 12.70 dial in and he beat me with a 12.830 @ 97 MPH!!!!!!!! Think he was on the brakes at all?

The only other track I have raced at is LA County Raceway and the elevation sucks, the track is **** but you can get tons of runs in and the employees are friendly. If PR is like that all the time, I have NO problem with a boycott.....it isn't like I am gonna win any races anyway.

If there is a "commitment" to race there, I would be curious what the wording of that is....I mean, it isn't like everyone can get off work/make the time/have the money to be at each race......so boycotting isn't likely to be much different then if most of us couldn't make it for a particular race. Just my $.02

 

I see what you're saying, Bill... we all do have a commitment to the CCC events, and to our own club. But here's the thing... for most of our group, its a long *** drive to any race track (not for me, I only live 12 miles from Pacific), and its expensive as hell to only get 2 test & tune runs, get rushed through those runs as if we're somehow bothering the PR staff by being there, only to have to wait a freakin' hour plus to get to eliminations... by then, cars are so unpredictable from the temp cooling off, from the cars cooling off, etc. that racing brackets becomes a crapshoot.

Not only that, but to have to compete for space with open T&T night AND another series (Diesels)... personally, I'd like to see Pacific seperate things out a little better like Bremerton does. Bremerton has street legals and open T&T on Friday nights too... but they don't schedule us then, they schedule us on Saturday with other competitions... as it should be.

Pacific just plain charges too much for it to be worthwhile putting up with crappy treatment by the staff, ***-backward track management, and zero respect for the racers who pay good money to run there and actually put on a decent competitive event.

This is in no way a dig on the CCCA though, as you and RC have done a great job in making the best of whatever PR gives the CCC series... which ain't much. Not saying Bremerton doesn't have its own issues that I don't know about, but it seems at least they appreciate the racers a little more, and go further to assure a better time for our event.

Jason

 

I probably worded my previous post a little too harshly. I'm not going to let NW fbody down or abandon our march towards another 1st place trophy. I guess it just grates on me a little ( a bunch ) that after swapping days with people at work so I can go, making a 5 hr round trip, spending at least $100 on fuel/fee's/food etc I don't have half as much fun as Bremerton. If they even tried a little bit the CCC races could be completed by 7:00 pm no problem. Waiting hrs on end to run feels like a slap in the face to me ? Of course I do have fun out there with you guys, it's just that I can see how it could be SO much more fun for us is they'd just pull their heads out

 

Everyone makes good points here. Which leads me to agree with Mr Salia. Finish what we started. Not sure I can make the race on the 12th, but I won't rule it out. I will for sure go to the dbl pts races if I can.

As for rules & such, my TA is consistent, so I dial what I think it will run & that servers me well. My wifes GTO however is not consistent, so I dial what I know it will run & let off if I am in front (aka sand bagging). This year I drive my car, next year I hope to trailer it. So you can see I am guilty of all these things I brought up. I was merely trying to make the point that from one perspective or another, we all do things that other people don't agree with. Myself included. But it's all legal.

So I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to drive home the point that any rule changes must be well thought out. We want this to be fun, as fair as possible, and yet as open as we can make it so that most everyone can compete. Since most of us can't afford to build a "real race car", this is our only venue.

 

Personally I have no issue with cars being trailered since so few people live "close" to the track......between that, the tire changing issues, potential for breakage, etc, I see no reason why trailering shouldn't be allowed, so long as the car meets the general spirit of the rules......Just my humble $.02

 

First I have always said pacific sucks, there track prep on fri night always sucks.

Two-ccc races are just that car club races. I understand that they are for evryday guys not race car drivers or guys the have all the toys, But untill you have someone that inforces the rules with a passion you will always have the set up bracket cars.

Most of those cars down there have dlay boxes and throttle stops, and evry other type delay box you can name.

I used to tralior my car but most of you guys would call mine a full out race car, I don't think that should have anything to do with who can race in the series.

Oh yhea steph could i get a nw f-body sticker......please.

 

Sounds like people just want to be treated with a little dignity and respect at the track and they like the CCC the way it is.

At this point, there aren't so many racecars that the CCC competition is just another bracket racing night, but the competition seems to be moving in that direction.

 

Good points.

Let me put things a little differently: I think the CCC should be distinct from the Satruday night bracket racing night. It is different now, and I like that difference, but the CCC seems to be evolving in the direction of the fully committed bracket racers with dedicated cars (for lack of a better way to put it). Do we want to do nothing and see what happens, or do we want to address the sitution in an effort to maintain the distinction? I agree, we don't want to exclude a lot of people, but I see the CCC as a way to attract people to drag racing. They can then go on to competitive bracket racing or stay partially committed -as I am.