i hear ya and you just backed up what i said, the Manufaturer dictates who wins.... also the good ole boys from nascar drive on two road coarses each season , and last i looked not one nascar driver has jumped to F1 but two prominent F1 drivers Montoya and Villenueve have.... nuf said

 

You gotta be kidding me. Nascar is about as boring as you can get. It used to be good 20 years ago when they ran 30% road courses. Restrictor plates ruin racing on the long tracks. I quit watching after Alan Kulwicki passed away. He did it all himself.

I'll take F1 anyday over go nascar.

 

Because nobody in nascar has the talent to make the jump to F1.

F1 drivers making the jump to nascar is like taking candy from a baby.

 

I think they left because of the politics in F1 the guy that "runs" it is a flaming gay POS. Not many NASCAR guys would make it in F1 though different kinds of people. The accent is also all wrong; refer to Bill Engvall at this point. LOL I really can't stand NASCAR but thats just me.

 

Actually Ferrari took both championships again in 2007. Remarkable considering with 2 races to go Kimi was 12 points out of first place. Ferrari dominance isn't over until they routinely lose championship like they did in the 80's and 90's. F1 driver's do like a good challenge like driving in the rain and adverse weather conditions though. 2007 had some spectacular races as a result. By far the best season of racing in over 10 years if not longer. Mclaren didn't just have a secret Ferrari data book. They had every detail and specification on the 2007 Ferrari. Everything from the cars weight, balance and dimensions, to it's powerplant, SW and braking systems. Renault is starting to decline. Renault as a backer of the team are beginning to waffle which is partly why Alonso only signed up for a 1 year contract. There have been many hints that Renault is looking to get out of the sport in the next few years plus they were caught red handed with much of McLaren's technical documents for this years car as well.

Honda and Toyota do have a lot to learn and they AREN'T learning it quickly. Honda has been back in F1 for what 7-8 years now and Toyota have been involved for 5years now. Zero race wins, and not even a hint of something special. In fact Honda was practically beat by their B-Team Super Auguri this year with a budget a fraction the size. In fact Toyota has the largest budget of all teams and on a good day they are a mid pack team. Starting a race with next to no fuel to run in the top 6 for 10 laps does not make you fast just a sponsor *****. Next to watching Ferrari win seeing Toyota and Honda struggle is almost the next best thing considering their budgets and arrogance.

I love F1 also a truly technical, interesting, and yes exciting sport if you follow all the details.

 

What happens when it rains? Can't race someone might get hurt.

What happens when an open wheel car touches another. NASCAR is far more forgiving when it comes to making mistakes yet they shut down the racing for anything where as in F1 they are race car drivers and that makes they're jobs dangerous and while dying isn't part of the plan it's a known risk they all take.

Villenueve was always an average driver that road his father's coattails into a drive in F1.

Montoya is actually very talented. In fact a number of NASCAR driver's have commented that Montoya shows more talent than most any driver they have ever seen. Tony Stewart for one. Take the left turns out of the NASCAR race and throw in some right handers and how does Montoya do. Oh yeah he wins in his first season. You will never see a NASCAR driver win an F1 race in his first season if he can even make the jump into the series.

Both are good race series just different types of racing with different types of skill sets. Appreciate each for what it is.

 

My personal opinion is that Renault isn't going anywhere for as while they've been in it for too long and they are unveiling thier new car in January. But I may be wrong. Honda and Toyota both need a better chassis and they haven't won but it can't be long until they do. The learning curve is steep and none of the big teams jumped in and won the first few years they were in unless they were lucky and the top cars fell out. I actually have a friend that works for Toyota's F1 team and you are right they throw money at it but all the big teams do. It is probably the most expensive racing series in the world. The story of Mclaren and that "little book" was funny especially the phone and email conversations. I would imagine all the teams do it but are a little better at hiding it. Renault didn't get in trouble for it though apparently they didn't gain any advantage for having the data.

 

I would be surprised if F1 wasn't the most expensive form of motor racing. I still don't see Toyota being successful anytime soon. I do think it's ironic how the "best" auto company in the world languishes in F1. Until Toyota hires the right combination of engineers and the creates the right management and working environment to foster real progress they will continue to burn money with next to no results. The big successful teams do throw a ton of money at the sport though but is necessary as high tech and competitive as the sport is. Whereas Ferrari is in the top tier of spending they are in the bottom tier of earnings when looking strictly at the automotive side of their business. They do make the most from licensing their name compared to the others but Toyota for instance has the deepest pockets of anyone around once you add everything together. The only reason there even is a Ferrari today is so that Enzo could afford to go racing. And if he wasn't the guy racing it was still his name on the cars winning those races. Talk about passion.

I don't think Renault is out of the woods just yet. They were more forthcoming than McLaren were once they were caught so FIA went a little easier on them. If more deceit and lying comes to light however I see them getting burned as well. Remember after the first hearing McLaren attended they walked away without even a slap on the wrist. It wasn't until they're second hearing once the scope and level of deceit was revealed that they were penalized.

 

F1 is the most expensive form of car racing. Hands down. Hell, the steering wheels alone cost $50K. Rumor has it Toyota's engine budget alone is 400 million.

Funny how the problems with deceit and lying teams follow suit with where alonso is driving.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...V10_engine.jpg

More!

 

I think with the amount of talented up and coming drivers that a guy like Alonso may find himself out of a drive if he's not careful. He's a spoiled F1 diva that likes to whine. Doesn't mesh well with most teams.

It's just been announced this afternoon that McLaren has divulged more info regarding their spying of Ferrari. The information they had has in fact been carefully studied and is/ was being incorporated into their 2008 car. They initially denied that any of the info was used on the 2007 car and would not be used on the 2008 car.

 

[QUOTE=Rokko;8295424]Because nobody in nascar has the talent to make the jump to F1.

F1 drivers making the jump to nascar is like taking candy from a baby.

[/QUOTE

they made the jump and havent been in the top 20 of points !!!! montoya won only because of fuel mileage not because he ran better... he hasnt won on an oval , short track period.. the reason nascar drivers dont jump to F1 is it would be a down grade to drive a car that is computer controlled from acceleration to braking. the damn cars drive themselves... in NASCAR there are 15-20 teams that can win on any given sunday. in F1 there are three..
i dont like restrictor plate races any more than you do but for the safety of the fans they keep the speed under 200 so the cars wont lift into the stands.

 

put stewart or gordon in a top F1 car and they win the championship the first year. an F1 car is very easy to drive..

 

I can't take you seriously when you say F1 is a downgrade from NASCAR. I mean c'mon, really?

How many F1 cars have you driven to say that they are easy to drive? LOL

 

you liked kulwiki for doing it himself and yet you say you like F1 they have like 50 people working on the car half are computer geeks that set the car so you could drive it ???? seems to me you switched 180 out ..

 

how hard can it be to drive a car that is computer controlled for each braking zone and acceleration area.. i just honestly feel after watching F1 champions race in nascar and their struggles with a 3500 lb car with 700 horsepower...

an F1 car is state of the art light weight everything, i agree the cars are the best money can buy, i watch some of the races and the lead car will always win as long as he doesnt break. very few races are down to the last turn , like nascar. i saw interviews with montoya stating how difficult it is to race in nascar, due to the talent of drivers and skill required to handle those cars..

 

The whole F1 versus NASCAR is an argument not really worth having. To much time to is required to win an argument like this with so many variables.

I will say this. ANY car is easy to drive if you know how to work a clutch or push a button. **** most of us on this forum could drive any of these cars but none of us would ever come close to breaking into the to 10-20% of drivers and if your going to compete at these levels you need to be in the top tenth of 1%. Driving a car fast enough to be competitive no matter the driver aids or not is a whole different story. If you know anything about racing this is what separates the world champions from the wannabees...most of the time (Villenueve is one exception IMO). Put Stewart or Gordon (who has driven a Williams) in a F1 car and they finish somewhere in the top 10 their first year but not first. That's because Gordon is a very talented driver otherwise he would pull an Andretti and drop out after 9 races.

 

Let me guess, your car is a garage queen? But that's ok because if you wanted to you could drive it perfectly. Gotcha.

 

Wrong, I never said I liked F1 for that reason.

The cars have enough downforce to drive upside down over 100mph
They pull 2g's under acceleration, 0-190 in under 9 seconds.
They have lateral loading of over 5g's
The brake loading is over 5g's, 190-0 in under 6 seconds.
They have 2.4L V8's turning an rpm restricted 19K redline
They make 750HP

They are the most technically advanced car on the planet.

The fact you think an F1 car is easy to drive is enough for me to know you don't have a clue about formula one.

Stewart or Gordon wouldn't stand a chance in F1, let alone win it all the first year. That one had me truly

 

now this discussion was about F1 and nascar and you go and attack me personally when you dont know me??? im stating a fact that F1 cars are in terms of race cars easier to drive than a stock car !!! the stock car is not as technicaly advanced as all of you have stated!! sure it is faster and stops better it should it cost millions of dollars for each car. F1 is a joke and if you dont think so then you missed last years run around ..... nascar is the fasted growing motorsport in the world and champions from other race series are jumping to get in a stock car .... no on and i mean no one is jumping to F1.