cbrenthus

OK, been driving myself crazy reading about this - just received my C/F sail panel and need to know exactly which epoxy primer and glue to buy. And the epoxy primer goes over the entire underneath of the panel, but the urethane only goes in a strip around the outside of the bare steel?

k3000

From what I read and see on you tube, ANY decent epoxy primer will do, but you can find GM's recommended primers on their TSB (service bulletin) you can find on links on the main page for this section.

You should stick (no pun intended) to one of the two urethane glues named in the GM TSB.

See the you tube video from TWA Motorsports (10 minutes), time index 5:49, He talks about cleaning the roof metal up and priming it with a special primer, it does NOT have to be bare metal, nor should it be.

Some also epoxy prime the top of the new sail panel also, for some reason.

Where did you get your replacement panel from?

From the TSB:

The following urethanes are available from outside auto parts suppliers:
U400 HV Essex (Dow)
3M® Urethane 08690

Also: "V cut the urethane tube and apply a 19 mm (3/4 in) high bead around the perimeter of the roof and the three dots across the back."

Also:


Products used and links Urethane https://goo.gl/mkQL9B Primer https://goo.gl/ZthkFj Adhesion promoter https://goo.gl/1oJrB9 Corner Trim https://goo.gl/sF7bBk 2 Sided tape https://goo.gl/5hsKHU

Also:

I believe this is different than the epoxy primer for the underside of the panel -- this primer gets brushed on to what's left of the original glue bead on the metal roof. See the video about 5:49 in to it.

3M Single Step Primer, 08682- Designed specifically to promote urethane adhesion

cbrenthus

Thank you! My sail panel is a carbon creations carbon fiber.

k3000

If someone here knows, I would love to know chemically speaking if the sail panel issues are any different when replacing with a carbon fiber panel instead of a fiberglass / FRP one? Specifically does carbon fiber suffer from the same bleed through if not properly primed and using the GM recommended urethanes?

I assume you won't be painting the panel? I'm thinking you want the carbon fiber look?

k3000

Could not find that part on their website so far.

Curious how much it costs?

cbrenthus

I will not be painting the panel, I'll be keeping the C/F look From my research, it still needs the epoxy primer, which kind of makes sense that the issue is the glue not having a barrier.

I ordered about 2 weeks ago. Only 2 left in stock and I got it for $800 shipped. My thinking was that it would cost that much to get a fiberglass panel and then have it painted to match Now, it looks like $1000 plus shipping is what it takes. Glad I jumped on it when I did.

cbrenthus

Yes. he mentions putting epxoy primer on the underside of the sail panel, but doesn't say exactly what he used. And 30ml is not going to cover the entire underside of the sail panel.

Should I use something like this for the underside of the panel?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/RUST-OLEU...dSellerId=1194

k3000

Hopefully someone who understands this better will chime in!

Yes, the 3M Single Step Primer, 08682 seems to only be for priming the urethane on the metal side.

And apparently you don't have to get every last bit of the old urethane off, bu that's still making me nervous leaving any of it on there!

Wow, that epoxy primer is expensive! I wonder if it's any good? Only 1 person rated it on Amazon so far, and the rating was 3 out of 5 stars.

OhTwo

iTrader: (13)

I used some sort of spray on epoxy when I replaced my sail panel but don't remember the brand. I do know it was expensive. I cleaned off all the old urethane so I didn't have to worry about the old stuff causing any future problems. Most came off with a putty knife and then some sanding to ensure everything was clean.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

FWIW, there is no solid evidence that GM ever changed the urethane (adhesive/glue) on the latter 4th gens leading to this issue. Omission of the underside primer seems to be the primary or sole cause, therefore any minor residue of old glue on the metal structure likely wouldn't cause any future issues as long as the underside of the new panel is prepped properly. But, of course, it's best form to strip it clean of old adhesive during prep.

k3000

Thank you RPM WS6! The panel from the 95 Camaro is going on my 2000 Trans Am in the next few weeks, and this really helps!

cbrenthus

Thank you all for the help. I guess I'll get the spray epoxy primer for the underside of the panel, I have the 3m primer on the way, but I was a bit concerned because it is only a 30ml bottle and I was thinking that isn't even close to enough to cover the entire sail panel. I'll keep you all posted as I have a black T/A and I'm going with carbon fiber sail panel and hood

k3000

I've only read the GM service bulletin about 15 times, my reading comprehension does not appear to be what it used to be, LOL! I can finally tell you with certainty that you need to hit the underside of the panel with 2 to 3 coats of a 2K epoxy primer for one thing, and you should also leave some urethane on the metal roof that was there to begin with. And you're supposed to use that 3M product on the original urethane on the roof and to prime the 2K epoxy primed panel. Basically, the 3M product is an adhesion promoter for the urethane bead. It says right in the service bulletin not to remove all the original urethane from the metal roof, and also says that in the TWA Motorsports You Tube video. You only use the 3M primer where the urethane bead will be, on BOTH the metal roof and also the new panel. But also 2K epoxy the entire bottom of the new panel, with several coats.

k3000

That should be so sharp! What year is your TA and what brand hood did you pick?

Are you going from a flat hood to a WS6 hood like I am?

cbrenthus

Thank you, this is pretty much what I understand as well after researching as well.

2002 Black T/A 6 speed non-WS6. Yes, I'm going from the flat hood to carbon fiber WS6, and I'm going with the Anderson Composites because it seems to be the only one that has functional ram air scoops, the others are not functional. I wanted a WS6 but the deal I got on mine was too good to pass up, and I figured I'd rather have the extra money to make it my own, than a WS6 that I'd want to keep stock. I also have year one snowflake wheels on the way as well

What color is yours?

k3000

Black as well! Is there any other color? !!! LOL

I got a good deal on this car too, and it basically had everything I wanted on it except maybe a WS6 hood.

I'm not sure, but I think i'm over it not being a real WS6 car! I don't see myself reselling it any time soon!

cbrenthus

As far as I'm concerned there is no other color on an LS1 trans am! And yes, My thought on a WS6 is that if you're going to keep it stock, then by all means go for it, but if you're going to change the hood, suspension, and exhaust, then why pay the premium for a WS6?

cbrenthus

Oh, and I went ahead and ordered the rustoleum 2K epoxy primer: https://www.walmart.com/ip/RUST-OLEU...2-Oz/109998602

k3000

Your thinking on the stock WS6 makes sense to me.

I REALLY like that hood, just be careful with it, no gas struts!

That primer seems like a good choice for doing it yourself. Would love to hear from some of the other folks here about it!

ws6pewter

iTrader: (1)

Well damn it's now my turn to fix the sail panel, only took 19 years for it to start. I noticed a little bit a waviness before I parked it for the winter, now I've noticed a few tiny bubbles. So I guess I'm on the hunt for a 93-97(early98) panel or trying an aftermarket. I'll probably go with a used panel as aftermarket fiberglass parts make nervous in regards to fitment.