The fiberglass replacements as well as the carbon fiber replacements have been known to fit just fine by the way, many have been bought and installed with no figment issues...they’ve been around for 15 years now.
I got my carbon fiber one from now extinct 6liter and the body shop guy marveled at the way it fit so there you go.
Magg Performance sells both carbon fiber and fiberglass sail panels. If you’re gonna do it yourself them make sure you sand the **** out of the remaining glue on the underside of the sail panel bar, then add an epoxy primer coat to both your new sail panel AND where it’s gonna be glued onto, THEN add the glue and c-clamp the **** out it making sure it’s aligned correctly.
OR, find a place that’ll do it for you.
I paid 650 to get my new one installed correctly, but that was like 10 years ago

 

Just did my carbon fiber sail panel, looks great. I didn't c-clamp it down, just pressed down very hard and the glue sets up really quickly, then taped it in place over night. Here are my thoughts and tips, I read as much as I could and watched a video or 2, so my tips assume you are using others for instruction, and I'm just pointing out what I wish I'd have been told.

1) Getting the panel off is a pain, but heat is your friend. I had heard about using heat from at least 1 tutorial, but didn't at first. Once I used heat, I made progress.

2) Get a box of razor blades for cutting the glue off, not just one

3) I had heard to use 8690 urethane, but at least one install guide said 8609. 8609 can be found much easier, was in stock at my Napa store, but 8690 had to be ordered and took a business day.

4) THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE!!! Nowhere did I read about how difficult the urethane is to work with. My 20 year old cheap caulk gun didn't stand a chance, I put a few inches on and stopped because I knew it would be curing by the time I finished. I went to home depot and got a $18 gun with a 13:1 thrust ratio and it worked much better. Also, make sure you remove the seal from the bottom of the urethan tube, I'd never seen that before.

 

I don't think the reproduction panels have been around for quite that long, I didn't see any on the market until at least a year or two after GM discontinued them (which was around ~2009). So there's probably more like ~10 years of history on these.

With that said, I do agree that some of the more recent reproductions have received good reviews, but many of the early ones did in fact have some fitment issues and needed to be reworked a bit by shops familiar with fiberglass. The later versions of the 6LE panel did seem to get good reviews and fit pretty well right out of the box, and I *think* this is what the new Magg panels are based on.

Just an FYI to anyone reading this, #08690 is the correct number as listed in the GM TSB.

 

Yes, that is why I ordered and waited. I did some searching and it appears the difference is that the 08690 has a longer working time, and considering how short it is the 08609 would be very quick. 08609 might be OK if you have a body shop and are used to this sort of thing, but I didn't want to risk it. What happened to me was that I had ordered 2 of the 08690 from amazon, and when I went to use the first one my caulk gun couldn't handle it, so I had to search and learn more about caulk guns and thrust ratios. I had to run out and get a good caulk gun, and I didn't want to use the tube I had already opened, and considered buying the 08609 so I could finish that day, but ultimately decided to wait 2 days to get the GM recommended part number.

I also did not remove the T-Top channel and had no issues with it being in the way, in case anyone is wondering.

 

I contacted Magg twice to ask what the lead time would be for his part and never heard back from him. I'm using the roof from a '95 Camaro.

Supposedly my body guy is going to have his windshield guy install my new roof because he's used to working with the urethanes....

 

I looked at Magg performance. Their website mentioned that they were hiring contract employees to get product out the door and decrease leadtimes. I would assume this means using temps and with my experience with temps no way would I want them laying fiberglass. I did find a guy selling a panel from an 96 that looks to be in great shape. The price isn't the best but I'm ok with that as it's keeping me from trying to get one off a junk yard car.

Is using a razor blade the best way to get the remaining urethane off both the car and the used panel? Got a feeling that's going to be a pain in the rump. I'd assume it's all got to be level so the panel sits flat without any waves.

The unfortunate thing is that I'm leaning heavily towards selling the car this summer to fund a 1st gen purchase. But I cannot bring myself to list the car with the panel in the beginning stages of blistering. Most people wouldn't even notice it the way it is now but I have a feeling sometime this year it will be much more noticeable. Otherwise the car is mint except for the door panels which I'm also think about trying to fix as a winter project. Should've sold it last year LOL.

 

A heat gun is your best friend!

 

My thoughts are that most people buying these cars now are at least somewhat of enthusiasts and should know about the sail panel. I knew mine was blistering when I bought it and explained to the seller what was up and that re-painting did not fix the problem, then used it in negotiation. The outcome was that I was happy with the price I paid knowing that I had to replace the sail panel.

So, at least for me, I'd rather get a significant discount on a car with the bubbling knowing I'll replace it and I will know how it was replaced along with having the option of carbon fiber.

 

I definitely see your point; you never really know how the repair was done unless you do it yourself but, as a buyer, I'd rather not deal with this hassle on another 4th gen. If I could find a seller that I either personally new and trusted, or someone with documentation indicating a proper repair (such as pictures, etc.), I'd definitely be willing to pay more for the car knowing I didn't have to deal with this. So I guess that would be my recommendation to anyone doing the repair - take some pictures of the process and maybe save any receipts for materials, show these to perspective buyers. That would make all the difference to me.

On a side note, the biggest problem (as a potential buyer) that I see right now are the low mile cars that either aren't bubbling yet or are only at the earliest stages (which is just slight waviness, especially when warm). Some of those sellers know nothing of the problem and/or don't believe it will happen to theirs, so including this in negotiation is nearly impossible even though you know it's going to be on the horizon as soon as you start exposing the car to sunlight (particularly those examples with dark colored roofs). I'd love to buy another low/low-ish mile 4th gen as a driver, but there's no way I'm going to pay top dollar knowing that the roof will need to be replaced after the first summer or two of sitting outside regularly (no outdoor shaded parking at my new house, and the garage is full).

 

Gonna throw my .02 cents in to this! Great thoughts guys.

I had two 3rd gens for years, and I wanted a 4th gen for 20 years!

I saw the wavy areas on the roof on this 2000 with 68,000, mostly garage kept when I brought it. I was very suspicious of it, because it's very hard to damage a car's roof with normal things that happen like fender benders and shopping carts, but the rest of the car looked great and I jumped in to the game. Had never heard of this issue before owning one!

I'm excited for you that you were able to negotiate the price down on your car. I think most of these owners think they have a gold mine and want what they want for these now 20 year old cars!

I did okay I think, IMO, the best years for the 4th gen are 99-02 with the LS1, 98's might be ok but they have that different 'puter.

I maybe should have looked more for a WS6 car, but I got a good year, the right color (black), the right engine, and t-tops.

Assuming the roof refit comes out well when the shop is done with it, I'll be happy. There will be pics for you all!

I paid like 8500 with sales tax and fees, and it needed a steering rack and AC compressor. And it has that annoying CAT issue.

All in all at least a fair deal...

 

No kidding. I've lately seen a ton of unrealistic asking prices and, what a shock, the ads just keep getting renewed or reposted over and over. Most folks won't pay those sort of prices for the average condition examples to which they are often attached. But that doesn't seem to stop these sellers from thinking they all have "mint condition show cars".

I actually prefer a '98 in large part because of this roof issue. I've also owned a '99, '00 and an '02 so I have experience with all the different changes across the various model years (and not all of those changes are good). Honestly there is no "magic" in those later model years, the computer difference isn't that big of a deal unless you're planning a radical build (and the PCM can always be swapped if really needed).

I think we talked about this is another thread, but I wouldn't worry about the P0430/P0420 code unless you have to pass an e-scan (and then tuning or O2 sims would take care of this if you don't want new cats). If you're having driveability issues that's another story, but I think I recall that your issue was just the code and no other problems? If so, that's a typical condition and doesn't require action unless, again, you need to pass an e-scan.

 

LOVE your thoughts!

So the PCM in the 98 can be replaced with a 99-02 PCM?

Are the wiring harnesses the same or similar between the 98's and the 99-02's ?

Didn't the bubbling start in the middle of the 98 production year? Refresh my memory please!

 

Always glad to help.

Yes, the PCM can be replaced with a later model unit but this requires a harness re-pin (the PCM harness is not interchangeable). Some decent tutorials have been posted for DIY re-pin over the years, it's tedious but not as hard as replacing a roof panel IMO...lol. More recently, there was a former sponsor working on a plug-and-play option to swap a '98 to the later model PCM but I don't know if that ever materialized (I sort of stopped following it, but the thread might still be active in the PCM and Tuning section, it was originally posted by LSX Power Tuning if you care to look into this further).

There are certainly some advantages to the later PCMs ('01-'02 being the best, with a faster processor), but it's not any sort of requirement or necessity for the average street application. Serious/radical builds and/or forced induction will benefit most from this upgrade. A bolt-on or typical H/C car can do just fine with the factory '98 PCM as long as the tuner is experienced.

The process change which results in the bubbling issue began very near the end of '98 production, starting in the month of May. I've inspected and received reports on many of these cars over the years, trying to best narrow down when the affected cars began being built, and 05/98 seems to be the transition month (some of the earlier May cars have proven OK while later ones have bubbled). I have never seen nor received a report of any '98 built in 04/98 or earlier with this condition (as further reference, my own '98 was built on 3/23/98 and is free from the issue). So it's the last three months of production for the 1998 model year (May, June, July) which are subject to the condition.

 

Thanks for the added details RPMWS6 -- I'm extremely interested in these issues!

I had to add a pin to the PCM harness in my 95 Caprice once to get the RPM output for my remote starter, but never had to re-pin the whole thing!

Thank you for teaching me! It has to be beat in to me sometimes! LOL

 

I'll be picking a panel from a '96 this weekend, it appears to be in great shape. I'll definitely be taking pictures of the process but will likely have my trusted body shop do the install once they get paint on it.

I'll probably be one of those asking a little too much for the car just to see what happens LOL. I've been watching similar cars go on auction sites anywhere from $17k-$22k. I'd love to get that higher price but don't think it will happen. However if it doesn't pull the lower price I'll likely just keep it. I think a one owner 30k mile that's never seen snow and only driven in the rain a couple times helps on price. This was purchased to be my forever car but I think I've posted on here before that I just don't enjoy it as much as I use to and I have major itch for a 1st gen Camaro Sorry RPM for hijacking the sticky.

 

Thought I'd share my experience with the sail panel swap process.

My history: I'm the original owner of my red 2002 WS6 and it's in the garage and not driven all the time but always at least monthly. It's driven to work a few times a month in nice weather and to shows and events frequently so it sees some sun. Been on a couple of Hot Rod Power Tours which is where most of my miles have come from. Have about 32K on it now and my panel was showing very small bubbles over 6 years ago and is out in the sun only when it's being driven, at events, or when it's being cleaned so it does show up on cars if you look for it. I'm sure some cars show issues earlier maybe because of the amount of adhesive used or some other variable but mine started to bubble at a little over 11 years after I purchased it new from the dealer.

My solution: I picked up a replacement panel from a person on LS1Tech selling them over 6 years ago. He pulled them off cars and then cleaned, primered, painted, and shipped it to me. Fantastic service and easy installation I did in my garage. Easy to peel off your old sail unless you're trying to preserve it for some reason. Make sure you clean off any remaining old adhesive. Even though he sprayed the underside with epoxy primer I added another couple of coats to the sail panel. Added new adhesive and put the panel in place with the help of my wife. Clamped it down once it was aligned and waited for it to adhere. If you're not comfortable with this step or don't have a way to clamp it down, you may want to have a body person help with this.

Other info: Not part of the install but there were two notes on the back side of the original sail panel written in black marker - letters, numbers, & signatures. Maybe B12 or B1L with 338 below it and A8 with 339 below it. The first set appears to be signed by Jim in cursive below the numbers and the second with only a cursive J.

 

Always happy to share information with those who are interested!

As long as the rest of the car is in the sort of condition normally expected at 30k miles, I think mid-upper teens should be no problem with the roof issue fixed. To get into the $20s I think the mileage would have to be lower or the car would need to be something more special (in terms of color, or a special edition like 30th Anniversary or CETA). But, again, I would certainly pay more as a buyer if there was good documentation of a proper roof repair.

On a side note, I definitely understand your desire for something old like a 1st gen. I, too, wanted to get back into something from that era about 12 years ago, so I added the '71 to my garage. I know it can be hard to swing keeping multiple cars that are nothing more than toys but, looking back, I'm really glad I didn't sell my '98 Z28 to do this. Like yours, this car was bought to be part of my permanent collection (it was a replacement and near duplicate of the first brand new car I ever bought), and I know how hard it would be to find another with this exact set of options in this sort of condition (especially since it's a "lowly" Z28, which often weren't preserved as show cars - it's definitely easier to find super nice WS6 and SS models). It mostly just takes up space in my garage, but after 17 years I still love having it.

The darker colors don't reflect as much sun so they tend to get hotter more often, therefore show the issue worse (and sooner). Camaros are especially impacted because all of the V8 models (sans B4C and Z4C cars) have black roofs.

There are some lower mileage cars that still don't show the condition, no matter how closely I've looked. For example, white-roofed cars specifically don't often show any signs of the condition here in the northern areas of the country where the sun isn't as intense, especially if the car is usually in the garage. But yes, in general you can see the early stages of this problem (as long as you know what you're looking for) on just about any example that's spent any time in the sunlight over the last ~20 years, even the lower mileage cars and especially the ones with darker colored roofs.

 

Unfortunately I'm out of garage space and the wife gave me one of those death stares when I mentioned that she could park outside So either the wife has to go or the Firebird LOL.

 

OMG! Decisions Decisions!!!

 

I'm about to tackle this project. I purchased a sail panel from 6litre years ago and it sat in storage while I was in Japan. Right now its getting painted. I have looked through the links on the how to write ups and I guess they are just not to my liking. I need an ultimate dummy step by step for this kind of stuff. My big question is what is the prep work that needs to be done for the underside of the panel? Does it all need to be sanded down and sealed or just where the glue attaches to the car?