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Bubbling Sail Panel Issue for Dummies
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,608
Likes: 2,516
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
I swear, we need to just make this thread a sticky inside a sticky. The main sticky should be entitled, "98-02 Bubbling Sail Panel Issue for Dummies"
- 98's are hit or miss on the bubbling sail panel, some speculate the glue that causes the bubbles was introduced around May in the build cycle while others say different. The concrete way to tell is if you have bubbles in your sail panel (duh). If you have a 98 with no bubbles, don't worry about it. If you do, replace it.
- There is NO way to sand and repaint your current panel to fix this issue. NOTHING WILL FIX IT BUT REMOVING THE OLD PANEL / GLUE AND INSTALLING A NEW OR USED ONE FROM A 93-97 F-BODY. NOTHING. Don't post up "Well what if..." The answer is no. Always no. You can't seal up the panel and repaint, it has to be replaced. End of story.
- Nobody currently makes a replacement panel. Yea, GMPD shows it in stock. It isn't. Don't believe me? Order it and find out the hard way just like everyone else. 6LE is willing to help and start getting the process going on making a replacement, but he is not Santa Claus. He does not work for free. If you want a panel from him, people are going to have to step up and place an order BEFORE he can start producing them. It's just how this business works, it wouldn't be economically feasible to just have him shell out the cash himself (like he has on many other of his products that everyone wanted and then never ordered) only to have everyone stand around and say "Man I wish I could afford to buy one, but I just can't right now....." If you want a replacement panel, 6LE is the most promising candidate to make one. Speak with him and help him get the ball rolling.
- THERE WAS NO RECALL ON THE SAIL PANEL. NONE. It was a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) and if the warranty is expired then GM WILL NOT fix this. A TSB states:
If you don't know what that quote means, it means basically this:
from GM. They'll nod and give you a sympathetic frown while listening to you complain about the issue, but they won't fix it for you. It is stated quite clearly that "If the vehicle is out of warranty, the customer is responsible for the repairs." That means you're stuck footing the bill.
- 98's are hit or miss on the bubbling sail panel, some speculate the glue that causes the bubbles was introduced around May in the build cycle while others say different. The concrete way to tell is if you have bubbles in your sail panel (duh). If you have a 98 with no bubbles, don't worry about it. If you do, replace it.
- There is NO way to sand and repaint your current panel to fix this issue. NOTHING WILL FIX IT BUT REMOVING THE OLD PANEL / GLUE AND INSTALLING A NEW OR USED ONE FROM A 93-97 F-BODY. NOTHING. Don't post up "Well what if..." The answer is no. Always no. You can't seal up the panel and repaint, it has to be replaced. End of story.
- Nobody currently makes a replacement panel. Yea, GMPD shows it in stock. It isn't. Don't believe me? Order it and find out the hard way just like everyone else. 6LE is willing to help and start getting the process going on making a replacement, but he is not Santa Claus. He does not work for free. If you want a panel from him, people are going to have to step up and place an order BEFORE he can start producing them. It's just how this business works, it wouldn't be economically feasible to just have him shell out the cash himself (like he has on many other of his products that everyone wanted and then never ordered) only to have everyone stand around and say "Man I wish I could afford to buy one, but I just can't right now....." If you want a replacement panel, 6LE is the most promising candidate to make one. Speak with him and help him get the ball rolling.
- THERE WAS NO RECALL ON THE SAIL PANEL. NONE. It was a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) and if the warranty is expired then GM WILL NOT fix this. A TSB states:
If you don't know what that quote means, it means basically this:
from GM. They'll nod and give you a sympathetic frown while listening to you complain about the issue, but they won't fix it for you. It is stated quite clearly that "If the vehicle is out of warranty, the customer is responsible for the repairs." That means you're stuck footing the bill.
(I'm going to leave out the "98-02" part though, since not all '98s are affected.)On the '98 thing....
Now that used panels are the only option (unless someone makes a reproduction), we have a limited amount to work with. This makes the wildcard '98s even more important of a factor for sourcing used. I've been investigating this issue for about 7-8 years now, and here is what I've learned:
- To date I have not seen (nor heard claims from others of) any bubbles on a '98 car built in 03/98 or earlier.
- 04/98 is a low data month for me. In other words, I haven't seen enough to make a solid claim for April (but what little I *have* seen of this month has been bubble-free).
- 05/98 and later are hit-or-miss. One person has even reported a June-built car that didn't have the bubbles, but that's rare. Most 05/98 and later '98 cars will have this issue (but if you have a '98 car from May or later and don't have the bubbles yet after nearly 13 years, you probably never will.)
Last edited by RPM WS6; Jan 19, 2011 at 03:34 PM.
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
From: Durham, NC
No, I think you misunderstood. When the item was still being made by GM, it was an order-by-demand part from Classic Industries. I'm sure GM was their supplier since nobody else made them, but now that GM has dis'coed the part you won't be able to get it from anyone (unless some parts house has one on the shelf from a long time ago).
I will gladly furnish the cash to 6LE to get this in production while I am deployed. I will get up with him and see whats up, I plan to buy quit a few things from him so might as well get this issue fixed before I repaint
Lol, it took me awhile to realize this was the same thread...
I get keyword notifications of when certain words are posted, 6LE being one of them. So I got notified I was mentioned in the "Bubbling Sail Panel Issue for Dummies" thread and figured it was ANOTHER sail panel thread, lol.
I come in here and am like, "Holy crap, another 70 page sail panel thread?!?!" then read what RPM wrote and figured it out, lol.
ANYWAYS, I'll definitely be making them. I will NOT be doing them in China so it won't be super cheap BUT it shouldn't be super expensive either, I really have no clue right now though.
I have my urethane valance guy (a local company I paid to private label the valances and tool them here in the states out of urethane) trying to talk his tooling guy into it. This is the best option for me personally and you all. They will be cheaper (than the next option I am going to mention) and go out quicker (because I'm paying someone else to do the work and ship them) and I won't have to ship them (which would involve finding boxes to fit, the cheapest route and a way to get them to wherever they would ship from).
HOWEVER, if for some reason that doesn't pan out, I've talked my other fiberglass guy (he does my tweeter pods, used to do the valances when they were FG, does my CF splitters etc...) into doing it. It will definitely be more expensive through him because he's just a guy in his garage (just being honest HOWEVER he does AMAZING work so this would be HIGH QUALITY) and I will have to ship them (which equates to more money because I don't have an account with a huge shipping discount like the other company does) BUT there is one other benefit... He will also offer them in Carbon Fiber.
SO, I'm in limbo waiting to here BUT I will get them made for you guys... CORRECTION, I will OFFER to get them made for you guys, one way or the other.
As soon as I know how much it will cost me per piece I'll post a new thread offering them. If I can get ten orders (which the profit from is usually what covers just under 50% of the cost of the mold) then we'll offer them.
So, that's where we're at.
I get keyword notifications of when certain words are posted, 6LE being one of them. So I got notified I was mentioned in the "Bubbling Sail Panel Issue for Dummies" thread and figured it was ANOTHER sail panel thread, lol.
I come in here and am like, "Holy crap, another 70 page sail panel thread?!?!" then read what RPM wrote and figured it out, lol.
ANYWAYS, I'll definitely be making them. I will NOT be doing them in China so it won't be super cheap BUT it shouldn't be super expensive either, I really have no clue right now though.
I have my urethane valance guy (a local company I paid to private label the valances and tool them here in the states out of urethane) trying to talk his tooling guy into it. This is the best option for me personally and you all. They will be cheaper (than the next option I am going to mention) and go out quicker (because I'm paying someone else to do the work and ship them) and I won't have to ship them (which would involve finding boxes to fit, the cheapest route and a way to get them to wherever they would ship from).
HOWEVER, if for some reason that doesn't pan out, I've talked my other fiberglass guy (he does my tweeter pods, used to do the valances when they were FG, does my CF splitters etc...) into doing it. It will definitely be more expensive through him because he's just a guy in his garage (just being honest HOWEVER he does AMAZING work so this would be HIGH QUALITY) and I will have to ship them (which equates to more money because I don't have an account with a huge shipping discount like the other company does) BUT there is one other benefit... He will also offer them in Carbon Fiber.
SO, I'm in limbo waiting to here BUT I will get them made for you guys... CORRECTION, I will OFFER to get them made for you guys, one way or the other.
As soon as I know how much it will cost me per piece I'll post a new thread offering them. If I can get ten orders (which the profit from is usually what covers just under 50% of the cost of the mold) then we'll offer them.
So, that's where we're at.
Yet another sail panel thread Ok guys, this isnt a thread about where i can buy one or if i can paint mine i know its trashed and gm doesnt make them anymore... That being said how are people getting these things off at junk yards. I followed some advice on here and got some stainless bailing wire and went to town on one at the slavage yard after 45 minutes i still hadnt managed to get past the first glue layer on the bottom. What kind of wire are people using and how long is it taking you?
Thanks Dan
Thanks Dan
Lol, it took me awhile to realize this was the same thread...
I get keyword notifications of when certain words are posted, 6LE being one of them. So I got notified I was mentioned in the "Bubbling Sail Panel Issue for Dummies" thread and figured it was ANOTHER sail panel thread, lol.
I come in here and am like, "Holy crap, another 70 page sail panel thread?!?!" then read what RPM wrote and figured it out, lol.
ANYWAYS, I'll definitely be making them. I will NOT be doing them in China so it won't be super cheap BUT it shouldn't be super expensive either, I really have no clue right now though.
I have my urethane valance guy (a local company I paid to private label the valances and tool them here in the states out of urethane) trying to talk his tooling guy into it. This is the best option for me personally and you all. They will be cheaper (than the next option I am going to mention) and go out quicker (because I'm paying someone else to do the work and ship them) and I won't have to ship them (which would involve finding boxes to fit, the cheapest route and a way to get them to wherever they would ship from).
HOWEVER, if for some reason that doesn't pan out, I've talked my other fiberglass guy (he does my tweeter pods, used to do the valances when they were FG, does my CF splitters etc...) into doing it. It will definitely be more expensive through him because he's just a guy in his garage (just being honest HOWEVER he does AMAZING work so this would be HIGH QUALITY) and I will have to ship them (which equates to more money because I don't have an account with a huge shipping discount like the other company does) BUT there is one other benefit... He will also offer them in Carbon Fiber.
SO, I'm in limbo waiting to here BUT I will get them made for you guys... CORRECTION, I will OFFER to get them made for you guys, one way or the other.
As soon as I know how much it will cost me per piece I'll post a new thread offering them. If I can get ten orders (which the profit from is usually what covers just under 50% of the cost of the mold) then we'll offer them.
So, that's where we're at.
I get keyword notifications of when certain words are posted, 6LE being one of them. So I got notified I was mentioned in the "Bubbling Sail Panel Issue for Dummies" thread and figured it was ANOTHER sail panel thread, lol.
I come in here and am like, "Holy crap, another 70 page sail panel thread?!?!" then read what RPM wrote and figured it out, lol.
ANYWAYS, I'll definitely be making them. I will NOT be doing them in China so it won't be super cheap BUT it shouldn't be super expensive either, I really have no clue right now though.
I have my urethane valance guy (a local company I paid to private label the valances and tool them here in the states out of urethane) trying to talk his tooling guy into it. This is the best option for me personally and you all. They will be cheaper (than the next option I am going to mention) and go out quicker (because I'm paying someone else to do the work and ship them) and I won't have to ship them (which would involve finding boxes to fit, the cheapest route and a way to get them to wherever they would ship from).
HOWEVER, if for some reason that doesn't pan out, I've talked my other fiberglass guy (he does my tweeter pods, used to do the valances when they were FG, does my CF splitters etc...) into doing it. It will definitely be more expensive through him because he's just a guy in his garage (just being honest HOWEVER he does AMAZING work so this would be HIGH QUALITY) and I will have to ship them (which equates to more money because I don't have an account with a huge shipping discount like the other company does) BUT there is one other benefit... He will also offer them in Carbon Fiber.
SO, I'm in limbo waiting to here BUT I will get them made for you guys... CORRECTION, I will OFFER to get them made for you guys, one way or the other.
As soon as I know how much it will cost me per piece I'll post a new thread offering them. If I can get ten orders (which the profit from is usually what covers just under 50% of the cost of the mold) then we'll offer them.
So, that's where we're at.
Let us know a price or price range and I'll start savings my funds for a replacement.
Thanks.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: Left Coast, USA
Ok guys, this isnt a thread about where i can buy one or if i can paint mine i know its trashed and gm doesnt make them anymore... That being said how are people getting these things off at junk yards. I followed some advice on here and got some stainless bailing wire and went to town on one at the slavage yard after 45 minutes i still hadnt managed to get past the first glue layer on the bottom. What kind of wire are people using and how long is it taking you?
Thanks Dan
Thanks Dan
Wire saw.
thanks i was thinking about that but i didnt know they actually made a saw like that do you know where i can get one locally ill only be in town for a cople days so i dont have time to order one.
I have just been putting a small hole in the bubbles with a stick pin when they form. They go down after and don't seem to raise again so I guess I will just keep doing it LOL
I'd stay away from a wire saw....atleast a cheap ebay one. I tried one, and it seemed to work ok for about 15 min or about 2 inches in. Then it broke. You have to be really careful, especially if you have a friend helping. If it gets any slack and pulls tight quickly, it'll let go. I've heard that windshield wire or piano wire is the thing to use. I made a pair of t-handles out of scrap metal rod with holes in each end so I can thread the windshield wire through. I had no luck after 2 tries, which is why the sail panel is still on mine. I'm probably gonna buy some windshield wire and try one more time as a last resort before I get one from 6LE.
6LE I will be all over a replacement sail panel. My 2002 19K garage-kept TransAM looks brand new in and out.... Except for the oozing sail panel. I HATE when people walk up to my washed and Zaino'd beauty and say "Wow your car looks amazing" and then after looking closely ask "oh... but what happenned to the top?" Hate it!!!!!
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 960
Likes: 1
From: Vacaville CA
Alright ladies and gentlemen, I am stepping up... Just spent around $650 to get a BRAND NEW GM SAIL PANEL...
To make a mold out of to make these for you all. As soon as it gets here I'll take it to a couple different companies I go through to get quotes.
IF I GET TEN PRE-ORDERS, I'll make them. If I don't, then I don't. Ball will be in your court...
To make a mold out of to make these for you all. As soon as it gets here I'll take it to a couple different companies I go through to get quotes.
IF I GET TEN PRE-ORDERS, I'll make them. If I don't, then I don't. Ball will be in your court...
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,608
Likes: 2,516
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
They were still making them as recently as 1-2 years ago, so it's very possibile that someone still had one laying around. Maybe bought one for a project that never materialized (sold car, etc.).
But I can assure you that it's NOS, as they currently aren't making new ones.
But I can assure you that it's NOS, as they currently aren't making new ones.
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield, VA