May 10, 2016, 02:15 PM
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Bubbling Sail Panel Issue for Dummies
TECH Resident
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 831
Likes: 0
From: Boston, MA
Here's a quick walk around video of my car after I installed the new roof.
2001 Camaro SS- 3.5" Mufflex exhaust-Idle - YouTube
2001 Camaro SS- 3.5" Mufflex exhaust-Idle - YouTube
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
I may have a real cheap solution to this problem if anyone is still interested. Doing an experiment with picture documentation this week on one of the most expensive/rare 4th bodies ever with this issue and is a hardtop. Stay tuned!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,638
Likes: 2,565
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
I'm definitely interested in seeing/hearing about your experiment but, based on my research and experience with the issue over the last ~13 years, my expectations of long term success are quite low. So far only total roof replacement has proven to be a permanent fix, but it certainly would be great if someone found an alternative repair - not sure what that could be though.
I am really interested to see what you come up with.
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Ok....where do I start? lol Been doing refinishing for as long as I can remember and have done countless 4th bodies for Berger and 5th for NicKey in Chi-Town. I also own a 2000 SS myself and have dealt with this issue personally on a couple occasions.
My first thought is this........THE GAS IS OVER! Thank God right? But no, I'm serious.....my observation right now is that the gassing/leaching of this primer/glue is done and can be NOW fixed is from not only my own observation on my car, but that of others. THE TIME IS NOW FOR REPAIRS! In looking over my own ride and the one I'm currently working on which just happens to be one of the most valuable 4th gen cars ever, I think the chemical leaching is done, over. And the time for repair instead of replacement is now. Now HOW that repair takes place is still up for grabs, but the days of continued bubbling is over imo.
So....if you want to know my opinion on what needs to be done now and how the repair (which I will be making this week) makes the best sense, I will be glad to fill folks in on my personal opinion of what I think and will be doing on this 100K car right now to fix this problem even though I have a brand new hardtop (not hoop) to put on it by the vendor that has been offering it through this thread.
My first thought is this........THE GAS IS OVER! Thank God right? But no, I'm serious.....my observation right now is that the gassing/leaching of this primer/glue is done and can be NOW fixed is from not only my own observation on my car, but that of others. THE TIME IS NOW FOR REPAIRS! In looking over my own ride and the one I'm currently working on which just happens to be one of the most valuable 4th gen cars ever, I think the chemical leaching is done, over. And the time for repair instead of replacement is now. Now HOW that repair takes place is still up for grabs, but the days of continued bubbling is over imo.
So....if you want to know my opinion on what needs to be done now and how the repair (which I will be making this week) makes the best sense, I will be glad to fill folks in on my personal opinion of what I think and will be doing on this 100K car right now to fix this problem even though I have a brand new hardtop (not hoop) to put on it by the vendor that has been offering it through this thread.
Last edited by xBergerRefinisher; Mar 2, 2016 at 08:48 PM.
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TECH Resident
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 831
Likes: 0
From: Boston, MA
Ok....where do I start? lol Been doing refinishing for as long as I can remember and have done countless 4th bodies for Berger and 5th for NicKey in Chi-Town. I also own a 2000 SS myself and have dealt with this issue personally on a couple occasions.
My first thought is this........THE GAS IS OVER! Thank God right? But no, I'm serious.....my observation right now is that the gassing/leaching of this primer/glue is done and can be NOW fixed is from not only my own observation on my car, but that of others. THE TIME IS NOW FOR REPAIRS! In looking over my own ride and the one I'm currently working on which just happens to be one of the most valuable 4th gen cars ever, I think the chemical leaching is done, over. And the time for repair instead of replacement is now. Now HOW that repair takes place is still up for grabs, but the days of continued bubbling is over imo.
So....if you want to know my opinion on what needs to be done now and how the repair (which I will be making this week) makes the best sense, I will be glad to fill folks in on my personal opinion of what I think and will be doing on this 100K car right now to fix this problem even though I have a brand new hardtop (not hoop) to put on it by the vendor that has been offering it through this thread.
My first thought is this........THE GAS IS OVER! Thank God right? But no, I'm serious.....my observation right now is that the gassing/leaching of this primer/glue is done and can be NOW fixed is from not only my own observation on my car, but that of others. THE TIME IS NOW FOR REPAIRS! In looking over my own ride and the one I'm currently working on which just happens to be one of the most valuable 4th gen cars ever, I think the chemical leaching is done, over. And the time for repair instead of replacement is now. Now HOW that repair takes place is still up for grabs, but the days of continued bubbling is over imo.
So....if you want to know my opinion on what needs to be done now and how the repair (which I will be making this week) makes the best sense, I will be glad to fill folks in on my personal opinion of what I think and will be doing on this 100K car right now to fix this problem even though I have a brand new hardtop (not hoop) to put on it by the vendor that has been offering it through this thread.
I'd be interested in seeing your results, but I don't feel like waiting the years needed to trust it....
Not to mention: you see to be fixing a museum piece that likely will never see the light of day.... And so it won't be exposed to the direct sunlight that seems to accelerate the process.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,638
Likes: 2,565
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
So you're basing your fix off of a guess? I'm not sure it's the fix we were all hoping to see here.
I'd be interested in seeing your results, but I don't feel like waiting the years needed to trust it....
Not to mention: you see to be fixing a museum piece that likely will never see the light of day.... And so it won't be exposed to the direct sunlight that seems to accelerate the process.
I'd be interested in seeing your results, but I don't feel like waiting the years needed to trust it....
Not to mention: you see to be fixing a museum piece that likely will never see the light of day.... And so it won't be exposed to the direct sunlight that seems to accelerate the process.
There is no "expiration date" for this issue, especially because not every example has been exposed to the same amount of heat/UV over its lifespan. I still encounter people who have recently purchased very low mileage examples that haven't previously seen much sun and the bubbling begins for the first time as soon as they start to park it outside at high noon. This happened recently to a friend who purchased a sub-30k mile '02 SS.
So it may be true that a bubbling example could eventually be "dried out" (or, perhaps, that examples which have so far been spared exposure and have never bubbled would eventually be safe...though that's debatable), but you would only know this if it was bubbling every day and then suddenly, under the same conditions, it just stopped. That might be easy enough to determine on a daily driver, but who knows how much longer the problem would be stretched out on an example that's only exposed to limited UV/heat?
The problem is also what remains in the roof itself during the process. Otherwise people who removed them, cleaned the metal, coated the underside, fixed and sprayed would have been fine but unfortunately it's IN the roof and still causes issues.
Unless you can figure out how to get it OUT of the roof it's going to cause issues down the road...
Unless you can figure out how to get it OUT of the roof it's going to cause issues down the road...
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
I do think there is reason to be optimistic about the leaching/bubbling due to the gassing being over with the amount of time that has passed mainly from an observation on my own SS that has been in the elements for nearly 5 years now. If the gasses are done and not moving, it matters not if the SMC is "contaminated" since the issue is stopped. Unless you OPEN the SMC back up and introduce new solvents into it, then there may be issues with it reflowing. And I think that is what many refinishers have/were doing. Also, I'm not 100% sure, but it would seem to me that the bubbling is coming from the gassing expanding the SMC and not the paint itself. UV rays are not an issue here since the problem is too deep for UV to penetrate, Heat however does accelerate the gassing issue that I agree with especially with darker colors. But if this chemical reaction is over, it doesn't seem it will matter how much heat they are exposed to now,,,at this point it would simply be an expanding/contracting issue with any heat, not more bubbling from the input I have gotten recently from others who have the problem and it hasn't gotten worse the last 3-4 years.
Last edited by xBergerRefinisher; Mar 3, 2016 at 11:33 AM.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,638
Likes: 2,565
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
But if this chemical reaction is over, it doesn't seem it will matter how much heat they are exposed to now,,,at this point it would simply be an expanding/contracting issue with any heat, not more bubbling from the input I have gotten recently from others who have the problem and it hasn't gotten worse the last 3-4 years.
Quick question. I found a hardtop LT1 1995 car with the sail panel intact. Could this sail panel be used? I only have to cut off the hardtop part separate the sail panel and install on mine? (which is a t-top). I believe I can but want to be sure. I will cut off the whole structure with the metal underside for later removal.
I found a similar car that I could cut the sail panel off of but separating the two could be hard. Maybe if you could build an inclosure to heat up the whole unit it may work.
As for the gases finishing, my 01 just started to bubble 2 years ago but it looks like I'm getting more since then.
As for the gases finishing, my 01 just started to bubble 2 years ago but it looks like I'm getting more since then.
I think the hardtop cars have the sail panel molded in conjunction with the roof part. Meaning they cannot be separated unless they are cut off from one another. I examined them side by side and the difference seems to be (in the t-top sail panel) a border that extends downward towards the t-top canal behind the rubber molding. In the hardtop there is not such border and from here it continues with the roof part. I think that if it is carefully cut, the border in itself can be made out of plastic or fiberglass by an experienced bodyman. It seems that this border is more of a termination rather than any real seal or anything. I hope someone who has encountered this situation chimes in since I bet it has been done multiple times.
I had small bubbles for a while and have just washed and cleaned it for the first time this year and those bubbles are now blisters around the perimeter of my hardtop! funnily enough my sail panel portion is in perfect condition.
I have a 6LE roof and sail panel but haven't had the opportunity to install it.
I have a 6LE roof and sail panel but haven't had the opportunity to install it.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,638
Likes: 2,565
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,638
Likes: 2,565
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
It would have to be cut, and then the front edge wouldn't be curved down and finished in the same manner as the original t-top roof panel. I'm sure it could be made to work, especially if you or your shop is good with fiberglass fabrication, but I have not tried nor have I personally seen it tried.