tranning tuning issues
08-07-2009, 07:10 PM
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tranning tuning issues Posted this in the tranny section but didnt get much feedback....im hoping some one here has seen this and can point me in the right direction...I will be hooking up the hptuners tomorrow, so if yall think of something i should keep my eye on, let me know...thanks
Well went out the track last night since ive been having issues launching the car...I tried all kinds of different methods, got pissed cause it wasnt getting better and started hot lapping..lol..had the car go into limp mode momentarly (i think) it happened on 3 differnt types of launchs...first one was brake stalling to about 2800rpm then mashing the gas..it flashed to about 3600 then kinda sat at 3600 like it went into 3rd then suddenly kicked back down to 1st and picked up strong....2nd time it happend it was a launch from idle, exact same thing happned...3rd time i was holding about 1400 rpm then mashed it..same ****...About a month ago i had the same issue so i had a buddy with hptuners scan my car and i had a code stored in history...some slip code, im assuming the same code i hear ur suppsoed to turn off with a aftermarket stall...so he turned it off, yet it still did it...and now im stumped cause i cant 60 foot for ****.
Also i noticed that after my 2-3 shift my RPMs drop way down to like 43-4400 rpm, where my 1-2 shift only drops to about 5000rpm...is this something that can messed with, with tuning?.....cause it kinda like it falls on its face after 2-3 shift and u can feel it start to pick back up at about 5000 but by then its to late as im about to crossing the finish line.
Edit:
Car was originally tuned with a fuddle 3400, now running the vig 3600...would that make a difference?
Well went out the track last night since ive been having issues launching the car...I tried all kinds of different methods, got pissed cause it wasnt getting better and started hot lapping..lol..had the car go into limp mode momentarly (i think) it happened on 3 differnt types of launchs...first one was brake stalling to about 2800rpm then mashing the gas..it flashed to about 3600 then kinda sat at 3600 like it went into 3rd then suddenly kicked back down to 1st and picked up strong....2nd time it happend it was a launch from idle, exact same thing happned...3rd time i was holding about 1400 rpm then mashed it..same ****...About a month ago i had the same issue so i had a buddy with hptuners scan my car and i had a code stored in history...some slip code, im assuming the same code i hear ur suppsoed to turn off with a aftermarket stall...so he turned it off, yet it still did it...and now im stumped cause i cant 60 foot for ****.
Also i noticed that after my 2-3 shift my RPMs drop way down to like 43-4400 rpm, where my 1-2 shift only drops to about 5000rpm...is this something that can messed with, with tuning?.....cause it kinda like it falls on its face after 2-3 shift and u can feel it start to pick back up at about 5000 but by then its to late as im about to crossing the finish line.
Edit:
Car was originally tuned with a fuddle 3400, now running the vig 3600...would that make a difference?
08-09-2009, 06:21 PM
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So now ive had the HPT on it but the laptop battery was being gay so i couldnt log an actual run..I did however drive around with the OTC nemysis scan tool plugged in...I read some where that 5.0+ voltage from the TPS could cause this but my car only showed 4.5 so crossed that off the list...read about the VSS being a possibility but it showed 6700 so doubt its that...This is what i saw...TCC duty cycle was 96% at all throttle positions in 2nd and 3rd gears, but the converter didnt feel locked..so i went in and maxed out the values so that it wouldnt lock at all in 2nd or 3rd..took a drive and showed the same ****...also the scan tool wasnt reading my brake switch, it obviously works, lights came on and converter unlocked...I did notice that the abuse mode seemed to be on so i turned it off..dont know if that was the fix or not cause, its only done the retarded launch thing when im on the M/T's and when i was doing the logging it was on the street tires.
I have both tunes the original tune that i was runnin at the track and having launching issues with then the one where i tweeked a few things...for some reason i cant attach them on here, so if some one would be willing to take a peak at them and tell me what yall think i would gladly forward them to yall thru email...any help would be GREATLY appreciated
EDIT: the shift extension problem seemed to not be there anymore..but i cant be for sure as it was REALLY hard for me to watch the road and the tach and look over at my buddy john with the scan tool..lol
I have both tunes the original tune that i was runnin at the track and having launching issues with then the one where i tweeked a few things...for some reason i cant attach them on here, so if some one would be willing to take a peak at them and tell me what yall think i would gladly forward them to yall thru email...any help would be GREATLY appreciated
EDIT: the shift extension problem seemed to not be there anymore..but i cant be for sure as it was REALLY hard for me to watch the road and the tach and look over at my buddy john with the scan tool..lol
08-15-2009, 12:14 PM
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Ok i finally got the tunes in as attachments...please take a look and let me know what u see.
First one is the original tune and the 2nd one is after a few changes from me.
First one is the original tune and the 2nd one is after a few changes from me.
08-21-2009, 12:32 PM
#7
Well let me be the first to say that you're overall tune is garbage.
First off the if you should try getting your WOT shift MPH more close to accurate. Sometimes people have to set the MPH to 0 or the RPM to 0 get the shifts where they want them but everycar seems to work a little differently here. My shifts better with the MPH correct and the RPMs a little low. However if you do drop the MPH upshift speed down you need to do the same to the down shift speed. Your most recent tun has you downshifting after you upshift. Also you can take your final WOT MPH settings and insert the in the part throttle table at the 100% column.
Your Force Motor Current Negative should match the Positive table.
Try moving your TCC duty cycle minimum up to 90. Most aftermarket converters don't have the clutch that the factory ones do, so allowing them to slip more can cause wear. I'm assuming the slip code you said that you had was a P1870, which is the PCM sensing the the converter is slipping more than it should with the TCC locked. Some shift kits address this issue with a new valve design. Moving this table up will cause it to be slightly more rough when the TCC applies but nothing that should cause alarm.
Also, the shift upshift table is less than the stock 2000 files that I'm comparing it to, but the same as 1999 files that I have. That's not really a big deal but you can move those tables up a bit to help firm up your shifts.
And sometimes the P0751 and/or p0756 codes can be set due to having a stall. These codes will cause the trans to go into limp mode and will disable some of your gears and TCC. I always just turn those off regardless just to keep from running into trouble down the road.
First off the if you should try getting your WOT shift MPH more close to accurate. Sometimes people have to set the MPH to 0 or the RPM to 0 get the shifts where they want them but everycar seems to work a little differently here. My shifts better with the MPH correct and the RPMs a little low. However if you do drop the MPH upshift speed down you need to do the same to the down shift speed. Your most recent tun has you downshifting after you upshift. Also you can take your final WOT MPH settings and insert the in the part throttle table at the 100% column.
Your Force Motor Current Negative should match the Positive table.
Try moving your TCC duty cycle minimum up to 90. Most aftermarket converters don't have the clutch that the factory ones do, so allowing them to slip more can cause wear. I'm assuming the slip code you said that you had was a P1870, which is the PCM sensing the the converter is slipping more than it should with the TCC locked. Some shift kits address this issue with a new valve design. Moving this table up will cause it to be slightly more rough when the TCC applies but nothing that should cause alarm.
Also, the shift upshift table is less than the stock 2000 files that I'm comparing it to, but the same as 1999 files that I have. That's not really a big deal but you can move those tables up a bit to help firm up your shifts.
And sometimes the P0751 and/or p0756 codes can be set due to having a stall. These codes will cause the trans to go into limp mode and will disable some of your gears and TCC. I always just turn those off regardless just to keep from running into trouble down the road.
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08-21-2009, 01:18 PM
#8
Maybe the whole trans build is not out in the open, but when the stall locks up, it will jerk you just like a shift will. it hits hard. so that is not a problem. the downshift has nothing to do with WOT commands when you are accelerating and nothing to do with the problem at hand.
when you hit the brake pedal, the brakes will apply, the converter unlocks, the brake lights work, but the pcm still does not show the brake pedal switch being applied. then the tcc will apply under part throttle driving, just normal putting around in 2nd gear when you are under 30 mph it will lock as well.
there is alot of strangeness going on
the force motor part was never touched.
the trans is also mechanically made to shift firmer than what the tables will say.
when you hit the brake pedal, the brakes will apply, the converter unlocks, the brake lights work, but the pcm still does not show the brake pedal switch being applied. then the tcc will apply under part throttle driving, just normal putting around in 2nd gear when you are under 30 mph it will lock as well.
there is alot of strangeness going on
the force motor part was never touched.
the trans is also mechanically made to shift firmer than what the tables will say.
08-21-2009, 03:08 PM
#9
Maybe the whole trans build is not out in the open, but when the stall locks up, it will jerk you just like a shift will. it hits hard. so that is not a problem. the downshift has nothing to do with WOT commands when you are accelerating and nothing to do with the problem at hand.
when you hit the brake pedal, the brakes will apply, the converter unlocks, the brake lights work, but the pcm still does not show the brake pedal switch being applied. then the tcc will apply under part throttle driving, just normal putting around in 2nd gear when you are under 30 mph it will lock as well.
there is alot of strangeness going on
the force motor part was never touched.
the trans is also mechanically made to shift firmer than what the tables will say.
when you hit the brake pedal, the brakes will apply, the converter unlocks, the brake lights work, but the pcm still does not show the brake pedal switch being applied. then the tcc will apply under part throttle driving, just normal putting around in 2nd gear when you are under 30 mph it will lock as well.
there is alot of strangeness going on
the force motor part was never touched.
the trans is also mechanically made to shift firmer than what the tables will say.
WOT downshift has nothing to do with WOT? Never heard that before. And it locks up in 2nd? Something that no other LS1 car does because the are not programmed that way. This one being no exception.
Force motor positive table is different, but not by much. When you crank the force motor up mechanically it's often best to not mess with the values in the PCM, but still both the positive and negative tables should be the same.
Don't get me wrong I didn't claim that anything I said would fix his problems. I'm not even totally sure I understand his problems. Those are just things I would change, even if it didn't have any effect on anything. Piece of mind stuff.
A good log (with the correct PIDs) of what's happening will go a long way in seeing if the tune is to blame.
08-21-2009, 03:29 PM
#10
no i am not the one that orig tuned it. i pulled the tunes. i watched what was going on. when you are accelerating under wot all the time, does your tranny think to downshift? hmm. i do believe i said when you are accelerating correct? i did not say when you force it to downshift or it tries to downshift.
i can tell you it locks up in second. dont try to second guess what i did because i did not do anything like what you are thinking. i watched and reported. i tried to make the converter not lockup in 2nd at all, but it still does. explain that. there are other issues that are still not known and that cannot be affected by trying to tune them out.
i can tell you it locks up in second. dont try to second guess what i did because i did not do anything like what you are thinking. i watched and reported. i tried to make the converter not lockup in 2nd at all, but it still does. explain that. there are other issues that are still not known and that cannot be affected by trying to tune them out.
08-21-2009, 04:16 PM
#11
no i am not the one that orig tuned it. i pulled the tunes. i watched what was going on. when you are accelerating under wot all the time, does your tranny think to downshift? hmm. i do believe i said when you are accelerating correct? i did not say when you force it to downshift or it tries to downshift.
i can tell you it locks up in second. dont try to second guess what i did because i did not do anything like what you are thinking. i watched and reported. i tried to make the converter not lockup in 2nd at all, but it still does. explain that. there are other issues that are still not known and that cannot be affected by trying to tune them out.
i can tell you it locks up in second. dont try to second guess what i did because i did not do anything like what you are thinking. i watched and reported. i tried to make the converter not lockup in 2nd at all, but it still does. explain that. there are other issues that are still not known and that cannot be affected by trying to tune them out.
Don't second guess it? I wasn't even sure where you were fitting in to the equation in the first place. You didn't specify that you did anything and you didn't claim any relationship to the car. That said, how do you know that it was locking the converter? Were you basing this on actual evidence or just your knowledge of what a converter feels like when it locks up?
Like I said before a nice log with a lot if not all the transmission PIDs would go a long way in clearing up if it's doing it's own thing or "trying" to do what it's being told. It may be solely in the transmission itself.
08-21-2009, 04:33 PM
#12
we can tell when it locks up. we used the scan tool to verify that is was in fact. it will hit hard. honestly. like a shift. then the rpms drop. it will happen during normal cruising in 2nd gear even. honestly. even though it is elec tuned out, it will still do it. then it shifts into 3rd its still on. on the scan tool it will show 96% duty on the scantool as well. not even 100% like it is commanded. according to the trans builder it is not supposed to be PWM either, but the computer will still show PWM before fully apply.
08-21-2009, 06:25 PM
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Its a TSP dyno tune....john is my friend and lets me use his hptuners to see what my car is doing and to post the tunes...the issue started after swapping the fuddle 3400 for a vig 3600
J/K. 