Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

They both work pretty much the same.HPT has a nice forum with alot of info.

We ended up with EFI Live and have never had a problem with it.Experience makes tuning faster and easier.Just tuned a 03 Vette in OLSD (15lbs of boost) 100% in 45 minutes the other day.Some people do it quick and some people take weeks to tune something in.
We chose EFI live because of the phone support.When I got it we couldn't just send e-mails and wait for reply's while a customer is sitting here and the car is down.

poconojoe

iTrader: (43)

But if you were spending $600 for a Roadrunner, why didn't you just go with TC and save back that investment in license fees? Since you don't need to pay extra for model year or stream licenses, with it. By the way EFI and RR sypported real time tuning long before HP started supporting it and from what I remember, it costs you extra credits to use it

By the way, its more the tuner then the software, they all end up with the same result, its just easier to do it certian thing with one over the other, and each one has its features and lack of abilities.

jrocstar

iTrader: (31)

you can pick up the how to cd from greg banish on hp tuners that will make everything easy to follow. Hp tuners software has never let me down. Highly recommended

SS Enforcer

I use Efilive to tune my own car and I am a bit of a dunce when it comes to geeky stuff. What sold me is I was able to download Efilive and mess around with it before I handed over any $$ for it no complaints from me. I havn't tried HPT so can't really comment on that product sorry.

cheers

JonCR96Z

iTrader: (33)

They are relatively the same thing. They have totally different layouts and there are some differences here and there, but you can get the job done with either one.

Without having one of them and knowing all about it, you won't really understand the differences or the benefits that each has to offer and which will be better for you. So just pick one and be done with it.

01Z28M6

I had the wideband but no laptop. The $250 for the EFI Live scan only using the Black Box feature for logging was appealing and I could get my feet wet for not so much of a layout. I just didn't know if I could actually do a tune because the conversations in the forums seemed so esoteric. As it turned out, I bought the tuning portion for $300 and a used laptop a year later and I still can't tune my H/C car.

I keep reading....

macca_779

Pro's vs Con's from some someone who bought both.

HPT Pros/EFI Cons

RTT on LS1's for spark (everything else is not needed). RTT not available on later controllers BTW
Easy to apply custom operating systems.
E38 2 bar OS with higher MAF scale and conventional VE table
Lower initial purchase price
Ford Support

EFI LIVE pros/HPT Cons

Far superior Black box capability with 1000+ times more memory capability
Ability to see logged data on the display in stand alone mode
Serial Digital Comms with Dyno's and Widebands. Because of that there are no offset errors in logging AFR often apparent with analog logging
Thermocouple support.
Free Custom OS'
VE/IAT factoring in Custom OS' to remove temp drift far easier
Dual Map modes at the flick of a switch for Valet/NOS
Ability to view AFR's in AFR/EQ/Lambda
Realtime controls for forced spark, Delta Spark, Forced AFR, Delta AFR across all controllers (FYI Map based real time tuning will more than likely return (it was available years ago but removed when RR was released) in V8 and it wont require a custom OS as it just enhances the already available DVT controls)
Road Runner for true real-time tuning of every parameter
Free up to 98 LS1 tuning
Controller based licencing
Demo software available
Higher quality information on support forum
User feature requests more often get implemented
CAX files. we can customize our own calibrations. A good example is implementing lean cruise on US based LS1's HPT certainly can't do that.
More frequent software updates.
More customizable feature packed scan tool, with seamless live integration with the tune tool


A picture tells a thousand words. Not a hard decision at all really as you get what you pay for.

foff667

iTrader: (2)

Add Alloytech V6 support
Add Solstice/Sky 4 cyl support
Add Cobalt SS 4 cyl support
Add GM V6 support
Add Generic SAE scanning support

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...ighlight=ratio

Same here http://www.hptuners.com/help/vcm_sca...cmcontrols.htm

I don't see how something they don't have is considered an advantage

Again, not an advantage since they charge additional $ for tuning the tcm whereas we don't.

Not an advantage once you actually purchase one or the other, its just a pre sale selling tool, not an advantage though.

Thats an opinion but not fact.

Again opinion.

Again opinion, we post a new software update roughly once a week and made available on an as needed basis to our customers.

For being a customer of both there is still alot of things you are missing out by not using your HPT software a little more often

Frost

iTrader: (45)

I'm with you on every part of your breakdown right up until this point.

Additionally, their CAX files are akin to having open definitions for calibrations. 10 months ago I asked for access to GenIII upper and lower LT and ST correction limits. They are already in the cal; I just can't do anything with them because there is no means to get to them in the editor; not even in the latest beta. 14 months ago I was told that the reason that the IAT spark adder didn't always work was that the car had to be up over something high, like 180ish degF to enable it in a particular cal. Both of these are in the cal but not available in the editor. The second one I really need for a number of different things.

I have spent the last 3 months pouring through copies of EFILive, Tunercat for GenIII, and LS1edit and related forums to find out which of them can do these things (and a few more that I'm not posting) for me. I don't WANT to shell out nearly 2K for another software package/platform to tie up some loose ends, but what can I do? The request forum MUST have at least 6 pages now from the latest full of requests without service. We both know that half of them come from people who don't understand what they already have or for what they are asking, but there are a pile of valid requests in there too.

foff667

iTrader: (2)

CAX files are great, IF you know what you're doing & looking for but since efi, tunercat & hpt don't save to bin format anymore the ones that know what they are doing & looking for really don't need the cax files for the most part from what I can tell.

Additionally there are things that can be done via the cax files we simply don't want to be involved in such as lean cruise, etc. With efi opening that door they could be opening their door to bigger issues down the line. Things like fried pcm's because of tables incorrectly mapped out to epa related issues. Its simply not something we want to get into.

What you don't see is all the tables we add on a weekly basis to different cals, custom os additions and just keeping up with new definition support is very time consuming and takes the better part of our time. If a customer comes to us with a request for a specific table for one os its usually much easier to deal with then asking to add 4 tables to 50 different LS1 operating systems(mind you those 4 tables are almost never in the same spot or same size and sometimes with different limits, axis, etc.) so finding those 4 tables for all those defs could take several weeks of work while not working on anything but that. Its easy to make excuses but the fact is reverse engineering is difficult & time consuming and when you have thousands of customers pulling you in all different directions its sometimes difficult to determine what requests to fill first.

-Bill

poconojoe

iTrader: (43)

You can still save Tuner Cat files in bin format, its just that now its a multistep process

5.7 ute

The main advantage of having the cax files is the definitions can then be shared easily with those that dont have the necessary skill set, all on the one tuning tool.

foff667

iTrader: (2)

I'm aware of the usefulness of them however each need to be done separately, just as we would when adding tables, so unless someone has the time to go through the 20, 30 or 100 operating systems with the correct values, offsets, etc what they want may or may not ever get done as its all user based, I'm sure there are request posts for tables being added for their specific os, and I'm sure some never get done or take months before someone has the time or effort to do the work for free for other users.

-Bill

foff667

iTrader: (2)

Custom os's not available through tunercat
Limited vehicle support through tunercat(pretty much nothing CAN based) so heaven forbid they decide to upgrade to a G8, GTO, Corvette, Truck or what have you then they'd need to purchase HPT or EFI anyway.

Tunercat still has its own licensing scheme you make it sound like you get unlimited licenses right off the bat for free or something which simply isn't the case. Also you can't purchase tunercat without purchasing the roadrunner setup so your talking about the most expensive up front investment to even start tuning, for something that doesn't even come with a scanner as standard thats alot of cash for most people.

-Bill

poconojoe

iTrader: (43)

TC supports the 2004 GTO, since its not CAN based. Hopefully John will be supporting CAN the near future. At least TC supports segment swaps and VIN changes, do the other packages?
As far as being unlimited licensed when you buy it, no its not, but $80 for multi year, multi platform licensing, is the cheapest game in town and it quickly covers having to buy a Roadrunner to get it. Plus you end up with a nice tuning tool. As far as scanning, there is a free scanning package you can get for TC's interface or you can buy one for under $70 from Moates
As I've said several times in the past, all the tuning packages have their features and their drawbacks, none of them is a one size fits all. The buyer needs to know his final uses before biting the bullet to get one.

5.7 ute

Yes, Efilive does.
At the end of the day, none of the tuning packages are a magic bullet. Buy whichever suits your means & learn to use it. Your brain is the difference between a good & bad tune, not the software.

baddbird99

hey i talked to the tuning shop. he mentioned something about holdencrazy.com, its a database with efilive tunes, he said if i can find one that is similar to the mods i have on my car he can install it as a "quick fix" before i get a full dyno tune. How well does this work? and is there anybody willing to share their efi live tunes? I have 5.3 liter heads, 59cc chambers, port & polish 5 angle, 1.57 n 2.02 valves, not exactly sure what stage they would be, cam is .578/.587 229/232 @.050 with 115 lsa, hooker lt's, 92mm intake and throttlebody, 42# injectors (running stock injectors right now). Would like to get more feedback on this

MUSTANGBRKR02

iTrader: (91)

Your tuning shop wants you to find a tune to stick in the car that is similar? I would say stop! Go find a different tuning shop.

poconojoe

iTrader: (43)

Before I say find another shop, does this shop normally tune Gen 3 motors, or is he one of the shops, that normally tunes something else and doesn't have a base tune for you? If he falls in to the later catagory, I might try him, but be careful. If he has a done a bunch of Gen 3's in the past and wants you to get him the base tune, run as far and as fast as you can. If I was you, I'd get a mail order tune from a great tuner like Frost andif I was still not happy, I'd get somebody to tweak it, but I don't think you'd need to

baddbird99

no he is legit, it is actually the guys at ws6store.com, i live 10 mins from their shop so im giving them alot of business. he knows what he is doing, im just impatient i guess. they are getting ready to open a new shop in april and dont have their dyno going yet, he said doing this would make the car driveable until he gets it on his dyno and gets a good tune in it. theres obly one other place around my area that does dyno tuning but they are a mustang shop and have a personal vedetta against gm guys lol i have not heard of one good gm tune to come out of them. I will look into a mail order tune, i jsut dont like the idea of pulling my pcu, im afraid im going to screw something up or its gunna get beat up in the mail. How much does a mail order tune usually run?