Tuner wants to drill a hole in my TB
09-21-2010, 09:42 AM
#41
At higher altitudes or even with bigger cubic inch motors with aggressive cams it's very possible to need to open the blade more than what is allowed before you run into positive throttle position readings before the IAC counts get in range. Yes I know about resetting the TPS to 0 when changing the blade angle but unless you can change what the max voltage is that registers as 0 on the TPS readings then you get to drill to allow more air in. Nobody can say that drilling is not the answer nor can you say that will fix this particular problem.
09-22-2010, 02:11 AM
#42
yeah.. unfortunately you cant go past a certain voltage on an ls1 motor.,.. basically you cant go past 0.55v on the closed TB voltage before it will no longer reset to 0.
once you get to that point.. if you still dont have enough air.. then your only option is to drill a hole...
unfortunately on many cars this equates to a 230ish cam being the limit of what you can run and not have to drill...
big cams need more air at idle and need a 2nd hole or the first hole made bigger.
once you get your IAC to be in the 60ish range at hot idle with the Fans off and AC off... then you should be fin at idle.
once you get to that point.. if you still dont have enough air.. then your only option is to drill a hole...
unfortunately on many cars this equates to a 230ish cam being the limit of what you can run and not have to drill...
big cams need more air at idle and need a 2nd hole or the first hole made bigger.
once you get your IAC to be in the 60ish range at hot idle with the Fans off and AC off... then you should be fin at idle.
09-22-2010, 11:13 AM
#43
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yeah.. unfortunately you cant go past a certain voltage on an ls1 motor.,.. basically you cant go past 0.55v on the closed TB voltage before it will no longer reset to 0.
once you get to that point.. if you still dont have enough air.. then your only option is to drill a hole...
unfortunately on many cars this equates to a 230ish cam being the limit of what you can run and not have to drill...
big cams need more air at idle and need a 2nd hole or the first hole made bigger.
once you get your IAC to be in the 60ish range at hot idle with the Fans off and AC off... then you should be fin at idle.
once you get to that point.. if you still dont have enough air.. then your only option is to drill a hole...
unfortunately on many cars this equates to a 230ish cam being the limit of what you can run and not have to drill...
big cams need more air at idle and need a 2nd hole or the first hole made bigger.
once you get your IAC to be in the 60ish range at hot idle with the Fans off and AC off... then you should be fin at idle.
09-22-2010, 12:14 PM
#46
He said clock the TPS, not going too far with the TB screw, big difference.
I have seen TPS sensors not perfect and also aftermarket TB's with the settings all screwed up, sometimes you have to adjust both to get them to work right.
Just don't get stupid with it.
I have seen TPS sensors not perfect and also aftermarket TB's with the settings all screwed up, sometimes you have to adjust both to get them to work right.
Just don't get stupid with it.
09-22-2010, 01:46 PM
#47
Yes I know but the point of slotting the TPS in this instance would be to allow the TB to crack open even further. From what I have seen on a lot of the TBs once you get to the point of where the PCM will read positive throttle position the TB is cracked open pretty far as it is and is near the edge of that lip. Of course on aftermarket TBs sometimes it's necessary to get it to read correctly but not on most of them.
09-22-2010, 02:16 PM
#48
So why is that better than a bigger hole. Just a different way to get air into the motor but not through the IAC. Why is one better than the other? Both accomplish the same thing. Other than being veversable. But I have made bigger holes in blades smaller when a car was brought to me with too large a hole so you can't say that is not reversable. Just not as easy as turning a screw.
09-22-2010, 02:57 PM
#49
Because it retains the factory smooth off-idle performance of having that sweep of the blade across the tight bore of the TB and not too close to the open ridge or past it. My point was to the people who post up find a new tuner if they have to drill the TB like they have any idea what they are talking about or what the specific situation calls for. There are many different possibilities each with their own merit.
09-22-2010, 06:19 PM
#51
Because it retains the factory smooth off-idle performance of having that sweep of the blade across the tight bore of the TB and not too close to the open ridge or past it. My point was to the people who post up find a new tuner if they have to drill the TB like they have any idea what they are talking about or what the specific situation calls for. There are many different possibilities each with their own merit.
I don't want to go into it really I don't, but WOW
Today I ran a cars TPS voltage up to 1.01V and Cycled the key at that point. The TPS angle was 0% after I cycled the key. It Auto Zeroed.
It doesn't matter how you get the air past the blade to get it to idle to a point.
The problem with the hole in the blade is that when the angle of the throttle blade changes the air doesn't flow through the hole at the same amount. Can you follow that. Some throttle blades come from the factoring with a hole.
Most Calibrations have 185+ IAC parameters that I can edit.
You need the airflow and the IAC parameters tuned properly. If you have HPT well you are missing most of the parameters so you will need to try to make it work how ever you can.
09-22-2010, 06:22 PM
#52
You need the airflow and the IAC parameters tuned properly. If you have HPT well you are missing most of the parameters so you will need to try to make it work how ever you can.
Thats about all I will say about that
09-22-2010, 06:33 PM
#53
LOL yeah I get it you have access to tables that mere mortals don't. I know that HPT doesn't have all the IAC tables which is why I said there are many ways to make it work and each have their own merit.
I know that as the blade changes it obviously doesn't flow at the same amount through the hole but it is so minute at the lower throttle positions I can't see the affect in any positive/negative light. I just prefer to have the blade be lower in the bore so when I barely touch the gas it doesn't jump as hard and is "smoother".
I know that as the blade changes it obviously doesn't flow at the same amount through the hole but it is so minute at the lower throttle positions I can't see the affect in any positive/negative light. I just prefer to have the blade be lower in the bore so when I barely touch the gas it doesn't jump as hard and is "smoother".
09-22-2010, 06:51 PM
#54
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I know that as the blade changes it obviously doesn't flow at the same amount through the hole but it is so minute at the lower throttle positions I can't see the affect in any positive/negative light. I just prefer to have the blade be lower in the bore so when I barely touch the gas it doesn't jump as hard and is "smoother".
And if that 0.001g/sec difference in airflow through the hole due to blade angle change is a hinderance you have a throttle follower table to calibrate.
Some hairs really dont need splitting IMO.
09-22-2010, 08:22 PM
#56
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LOL yeah I get it you have access to tables that mere mortals don't. I know that HPT doesn't have all the IAC tables which is why I said there are many ways to make it work and each have their own merit.
I know that as the blade changes it obviously doesn't flow at the same amount through the hole but it is so minute at the lower throttle positions I can't see the affect in any positive/negative light. I just prefer to have the blade be lower in the bore so when I barely touch the gas it doesn't jump as hard and is "smoother".
I know that as the blade changes it obviously doesn't flow at the same amount through the hole but it is so minute at the lower throttle positions I can't see the affect in any positive/negative light. I just prefer to have the blade be lower in the bore so when I barely touch the gas it doesn't jump as hard and is "smoother".
I reccomend for people to get the hot IAC counts to around 100 by drilling the throttle plate. Then use the adjustment screw as a fine adjust to get down to 50-60. That way you don't drill the hole too big.
You guys telling him to get a new tuner are just completely wrong
09-22-2010, 08:59 PM
#58
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My tuner, a sponsor on here, drilled my TB. It wasnt enough, he said the IAC passageway was small on BBK throttle bodies. I drilled it out and its great now. It would hunt for idle before.
09-23-2010, 09:23 PM
#59
Just a little update. Car threw code p1153 today and went into closed loop. It used to throw this way back when until I had it turned off in the tune. I just replaced the o2 sensors but I guess we will have to turn it off on this tune also.
As far as drilling the hole in the tb, I'm not going to do it. Mainly because I will eventually be selling this for the 102mm and it will be easier to sell without the hole. So I'm just going to ask the guy to get it as close as possible and just deal for now.
As far as drilling the hole in the tb, I'm not going to do it. Mainly because I will eventually be selling this for the 102mm and it will be easier to sell without the hole. So I'm just going to ask the guy to get it as close as possible and just deal for now.
09-23-2010, 09:56 PM
#60
this site is always useful to me...
http://www.gearchatter.com/viewtopic9120.php
likely your o2's dont have enough heat due to longtubes and cam overlap...
I just commented on this to somebody over on HP Tuners Forum earlier today..
http://www.gearchatter.com/viewtopic9120.php
likely your o2's dont have enough heat due to longtubes and cam overlap...
I just commented on this to somebody over on HP Tuners Forum earlier today..
Originally Posted by soundengineer
its an o2 heater issue..
basically you arent getting enough heat or you are getting too much heat to the o2's, and then they dont switch properly... usually its not enough heat at idle causing this code
3 options
1) try to find an o2 that has a better heater element - most of the time this does not solve the issue
2) go open loop at idle, basically using PE table to command 1.0 at idle and PE TPS table to command 0 TPS to get into PE at idle
3) use a wideband that can send out a simulated narrowband signal to the PCM - Innovate LC1/LM1/LM2 are the only ones that do it. FAST makes one that can send out a 0~1v signal, but its linear and not a narrowband sweep so it doesnt work well on anything OBD2
I am personally using #3
I use an LM2 connected to a relay, power from battery all the time, relay gets 12v when Ignition key is turned to the On Position, which in turn, powers up the LM2
the LM2 is a dual wideband with seperate output channels, both can be set up as wideband outputs or narrowband outputs.
I have mine set to both be narrowband outputs. they both go to the factory harness where the narrow band o2's normally connect
I just cut my factory 02 sensors off of their cable and spliced it to the outputs of the LM2 cable.
since the wideband has a much better heater, it doesnt have the problems the stock style narrowbands have.
basically you arent getting enough heat or you are getting too much heat to the o2's, and then they dont switch properly... usually its not enough heat at idle causing this code
3 options
1) try to find an o2 that has a better heater element - most of the time this does not solve the issue
2) go open loop at idle, basically using PE table to command 1.0 at idle and PE TPS table to command 0 TPS to get into PE at idle
3) use a wideband that can send out a simulated narrowband signal to the PCM - Innovate LC1/LM1/LM2 are the only ones that do it. FAST makes one that can send out a 0~1v signal, but its linear and not a narrowband sweep so it doesnt work well on anything OBD2
I am personally using #3
I use an LM2 connected to a relay, power from battery all the time, relay gets 12v when Ignition key is turned to the On Position, which in turn, powers up the LM2
the LM2 is a dual wideband with seperate output channels, both can be set up as wideband outputs or narrowband outputs.
I have mine set to both be narrowband outputs. they both go to the factory harness where the narrow band o2's normally connect
I just cut my factory 02 sensors off of their cable and spliced it to the outputs of the LM2 cable.
since the wideband has a much better heater, it doesnt have the problems the stock style narrowbands have.