Efi live vs AutoTap vs LS1edit vs HPtuner
03-10-2004, 06:29 PM
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Wolfee, we are working on the 98 LS1's as we speak.. We will be coming out with these models shortly.
Paul, my testing did show those rates. Give me a few days and I'll see if I can whip up some logs for you, or make a correction on the rates that I have posted.
Paul, my testing did show those rates. Give me a few days and I'll see if I can whip up some logs for you, or make a correction on the rates that I have posted.
03-10-2004, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gameover
HPTuners = Scanner + Reprogramming, taking orders now. $499. No VIN locks, unencrypted bins + inbuilt recovery means no fried PCMs and failsafe in-car programming.
hope that helps
hope that helps
I was interested in this but i got sick of waiting for the release
03-11-2004, 05:51 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by EFIliveV5
03-11-2004, 06:00 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by gameover
HPTuners = Scanner + Reprogramming, taking orders now. $499. No VIN locks, unencrypted bins + inbuilt recovery means no fried PCMs and failsafe in-car programming.
hope that helps
hope that helps
This could get interesting.
I think BOTH packages are over-priced... well, it depends on how good the scanner for HPTuner is. It still comes out to $500 for someone like me who already has both and just wants an Editing alternative.
It looks like my best option is to hold out for EFILive's version and see if there is incentive price-wise to make a move.
03-11-2004, 09:35 AM
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I want to address in a more public arena my opinion on EFILive. I have been associated with them for a few years, and have assisted in development of some of their products. I have paraphrased below some statements I have posted on their messageboard, regarding the status of some upcomming products:
"They will be ready when they are ready, and there may be a week or so before any progress worth publically posting is made. I can assure that things are moving along. Keep in mind also, that because of the Australian/New Zealand time differences, it may be 2 days before any specific replies are posted.
Ponder, if you will the following paragraph: As with anything, would you spend time on money on a product that doesn't provide literal one-on-one customer service, "sells no product before its time", and doesn't rely on its customers to be product testers, spouts paranoia hype in public, offers vaporware, and/or is almost proud of its unwillingness to respond to customer requests for improvements? Even in this limited market (OBDII scantools and programmers) there are issues like these. However I know that the products from EFILive will meet the needs of its customers - that is the "bottom line".
As for pricing, I know that's an issue, but even I can't 'conjure up' the pricing at this point. Aside from component, labor, R&D documentation, testing, and other development expenses, ther arer legal, and administratitive costs below all that, and then the marketing, promotion and packaging and shipping costs to be figured out.
Additionally, no one wants to sell something at so high a price it's not affordable to the average enthusiast, but also doesn't want it to be priced so low there is no return for further development, or (and unfortunately this is an issue) priced so low there is a credibility issue. I have personally encountered resistance to low priced products that are priced well under the competition while the fact is that the product is BETTER than the higher priced products. Unfortunately the marketplace rarely believes this, to everybodies loss.
Pricing is an art and a science, and you can be sure that every effort will be made to get this product out at the best price point, and it has already been said, that existing customers WILL be rewarded.
One additional thought is that when you are doing a project as a labor of love, not only is the end result BETTER, but the "pride and willingness to assist" is MUCH greater in the final product. The downside is that the "push" and "priority" is tempered by the personal priorities in each of the participants. Yes, it's a commercial product, but while it's unfortunately the norm to sometimes obscure facts, to panic and to make commitments that are unrealistic in the world of "Big Business", I can and do assure you that EFILive and it's partners don't operate that way.
They are real people who love what they do and want to share their experience. Figure out the amount of time thay have already spent and you'll see that they are NOT in it to make big $$. Other products may work as well, some may feature more "gee whiz" bells and whistles, while others may stare at you blankly while you scratch your head....
Be patient and you will be rewarded with a product that will exceed your expectations and if not, I can assure you that EFILive will do it's best to get you what you think is missing, to make it so. I have seen it happen and know this policy will continue!
MRK
"They will be ready when they are ready, and there may be a week or so before any progress worth publically posting is made. I can assure that things are moving along. Keep in mind also, that because of the Australian/New Zealand time differences, it may be 2 days before any specific replies are posted.
Ponder, if you will the following paragraph: As with anything, would you spend time on money on a product that doesn't provide literal one-on-one customer service, "sells no product before its time", and doesn't rely on its customers to be product testers, spouts paranoia hype in public, offers vaporware, and/or is almost proud of its unwillingness to respond to customer requests for improvements? Even in this limited market (OBDII scantools and programmers) there are issues like these. However I know that the products from EFILive will meet the needs of its customers - that is the "bottom line".
As for pricing, I know that's an issue, but even I can't 'conjure up' the pricing at this point. Aside from component, labor, R&D documentation, testing, and other development expenses, ther arer legal, and administratitive costs below all that, and then the marketing, promotion and packaging and shipping costs to be figured out.
Additionally, no one wants to sell something at so high a price it's not affordable to the average enthusiast, but also doesn't want it to be priced so low there is no return for further development, or (and unfortunately this is an issue) priced so low there is a credibility issue. I have personally encountered resistance to low priced products that are priced well under the competition while the fact is that the product is BETTER than the higher priced products. Unfortunately the marketplace rarely believes this, to everybodies loss.
Pricing is an art and a science, and you can be sure that every effort will be made to get this product out at the best price point, and it has already been said, that existing customers WILL be rewarded.
One additional thought is that when you are doing a project as a labor of love, not only is the end result BETTER, but the "pride and willingness to assist" is MUCH greater in the final product. The downside is that the "push" and "priority" is tempered by the personal priorities in each of the participants. Yes, it's a commercial product, but while it's unfortunately the norm to sometimes obscure facts, to panic and to make commitments that are unrealistic in the world of "Big Business", I can and do assure you that EFILive and it's partners don't operate that way.
They are real people who love what they do and want to share their experience. Figure out the amount of time thay have already spent and you'll see that they are NOT in it to make big $$. Other products may work as well, some may feature more "gee whiz" bells and whistles, while others may stare at you blankly while you scratch your head....
Be patient and you will be rewarded with a product that will exceed your expectations and if not, I can assure you that EFILive will do it's best to get you what you think is missing, to make it so. I have seen it happen and know this policy will continue!
MRK
Last edited by emarkay; 03-11-2004 at 09:40 AM. Reason: spelling
03-11-2004, 10:10 AM
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so i paid $400 for EFILIVE pro, then will have to pay $500 more for EFI tuner and the new flashscan device?
i think i'll go sell my efilive when hptuner starts shipping.
i think i'll go sell my efilive when hptuner starts shipping.
03-11-2004, 10:15 AM
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I am one of those that is caught right in the middle.
Going to need software soon but really can't decide at this point which one I will go with. I like the idea of having an editor and scanner in one package and it helps with price as well.
My delima is product support after the sale has been made.
Paul, will you guys be offering free upgrades/updates with your tunning/scanning software just as you have with EFILive?
I would still like to see what kind of feedback users give on HPTuners software.
Going to need software soon but really can't decide at this point which one I will go with. I like the idea of having an editor and scanner in one package and it helps with price as well.
My delima is product support after the sale has been made.
Paul, will you guys be offering free upgrades/updates with your tunning/scanning software just as you have with EFILive?
I would still like to see what kind of feedback users give on HPTuners software.
03-11-2004, 10:27 AM
#28
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Did they say existing EFILive/Autotap customers pay $500.00?
I just read there would be a price break, but not what the price would be. I would assume, based on previous upgrades with Autotap/EFILive, that there is an acutal difference you can see.. at least this has been my exprience.
Since I have LS1-Edit and HPTuners does not see the value in competitive upgrade for owners of a a comparably priced editing tool, I can afford to wait and see how EFILive handles their business. HPTuner rep is talking good customer support talk... I'd like to see the walk. Carputing was going to be "all that" when we jumped on the Beta bandwagon only to be stuck with "beta" unless we paid for another update. There was TERRIBLE response to much discussion about this issue.
I've seen the pricing structure Carputing is willing to give someone who is selling LS1-Edit to recoup their costs. The "recoupment" aspect is virtually non-existent.
I didn't have my hopes up on recoupment, anyway. But, I DID think to buy two licenses from the outset. Someone with an 97/98 would still have room to do their PCM on mine. So, luckily, I shouldn't have the problem some poor smuck with only one license would have... $150 for a license + $50 shipping and "handling". Add $100 for 6 mos of updates and that's $300 resale tag, before recoupment.
I just read there would be a price break, but not what the price would be. I would assume, based on previous upgrades with Autotap/EFILive, that there is an acutal difference you can see.. at least this has been my exprience.
Since I have LS1-Edit and HPTuners does not see the value in competitive upgrade for owners of a a comparably priced editing tool, I can afford to wait and see how EFILive handles their business. HPTuner rep is talking good customer support talk... I'd like to see the walk. Carputing was going to be "all that" when we jumped on the Beta bandwagon only to be stuck with "beta" unless we paid for another update. There was TERRIBLE response to much discussion about this issue.
I've seen the pricing structure Carputing is willing to give someone who is selling LS1-Edit to recoup their costs. The "recoupment" aspect is virtually non-existent.
I didn't have my hopes up on recoupment, anyway. But, I DID think to buy two licenses from the outset. Someone with an 97/98 would still have room to do their PCM on mine. So, luckily, I shouldn't have the problem some poor smuck with only one license would have... $150 for a license + $50 shipping and "handling". Add $100 for 6 mos of updates and that's $300 resale tag, before recoupment.
03-11-2004, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sscam68
My delima is product support after the sale has been made.
Paul, will you guys be offering free upgrades/updates with your tunning/scanning software just as you have with EFILive?
Paul, will you guys be offering free upgrades/updates with your tunning/scanning software just as you have with EFILive?
Regards
Paul
03-11-2004, 01:26 PM
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When Carputing was the only game in town, we really had no choice. I'm glad there's competition now, that can put the power back among the masses. I like having the ability to choose from two or more packages based on featureset, usability, stability, etc. I recently added yet another LS1 to the family, and can't install the cam sitting on the shelf until I can program the PCM. I can either shell out a ton of cash to Carputing again, because my current cable already has four licenses on it -- or wait and see how the other folks' packages stack up. That's a pretty easy choice, especially knowing I can likely save money over Carputing by picking one of the new guys.
03-11-2004, 02:18 PM
#31
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Finally! If I may take the time to copy and paste:
Now, THAT, gentlemen, is what I call a software company!
Those who would develop software, sit up and take notice!
THIS is how it's DONE!
If this leaves the vaporware stage and is as good as their existing product, so far, I know who will have MY money...
"The EFILive Tuning Software will be supported in the same manner as the EFILive Scan Tool. That means bug fixes and minor enhancements are free for the life of the product. Even if you sell your product to someone else they will also continue to get free bug fixes and minor enhancements.
Our philosopy on bug fixes is this: We intend, to the best of our abilities, to sell a bug free product that does what it is advertised to do. If there is a fault in the software or some feature does not perform as expected, then it is *our* responsibility to fix it. The customer should not be expected to foot the bill for us to fix our own mistakes.
Major upgrades will attract an upgrade charge.
If/when there is a major upgrade, we reserve the right to charge for the upgrade. That doesn't mean we will charge for it, in fact the upgrade from V5 to V6, which most people would consider a major upgrade, did not attract any upgrade charge.
Adding support for a new PCM is not considered an upgrade and will not be free."
Our philosopy on bug fixes is this: We intend, to the best of our abilities, to sell a bug free product that does what it is advertised to do. If there is a fault in the software or some feature does not perform as expected, then it is *our* responsibility to fix it. The customer should not be expected to foot the bill for us to fix our own mistakes.
Major upgrades will attract an upgrade charge.
If/when there is a major upgrade, we reserve the right to charge for the upgrade. That doesn't mean we will charge for it, in fact the upgrade from V5 to V6, which most people would consider a major upgrade, did not attract any upgrade charge.
Adding support for a new PCM is not considered an upgrade and will not be free."
Those who would develop software, sit up and take notice!
THIS is how it's DONE!
If this leaves the vaporware stage and is as good as their existing product, so far, I know who will have MY money...
03-11-2004, 02:42 PM
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Well it's not vaporware - technically, it's starting to condense, I have seen some pretty neat things (Shhh, don't tell anyone'cuz it's big secret, but the old V5 maps are back, and now they are entering a whole new dimension or two or three...) and a few other things that, well, you'll see as soon as it's ready. Let's just say it's at the Alpha testing stage - most of the difficult work is done...
Last edited by emarkay; 03-11-2004 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Uh oh, the rabbit died... missed a period :)
03-11-2004, 03:11 PM
#33
Originally Posted by EFIliveV5
The short answer:
EFILive = generic scanner for all GM OBDII, high-speed, enhanced scanner with bidirectional controls for LS1/LS6. Will have programming capability soon.
AutoTap = Enhanced scanner for just about all OBD II vehicles. Does not program.
LS1Edit = PCM programmer for LS1/LS6 PCMs. Does not scan/log.
HPTuner = Advertised as a combined scanner and Editor. Not available yet, maybe soon - who knows?
Regards
Paul
EFILive = generic scanner for all GM OBDII, high-speed, enhanced scanner with bidirectional controls for LS1/LS6. Will have programming capability soon.
AutoTap = Enhanced scanner for just about all OBD II vehicles. Does not program.
LS1Edit = PCM programmer for LS1/LS6 PCMs. Does not scan/log.
HPTuner = Advertised as a combined scanner and Editor. Not available yet, maybe soon - who knows?
Regards
Paul
www.hptuners.com
It is available
03-11-2004, 03:53 PM
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Testing 1,2,5.... Oh, soundengineer:
"All orders placed are pre-orders. Orders will be shipped in the order in which they are recieved. Our schedualed (sic) ship date is March 22'nd."
This is unchanged since March 5...
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/YaBB.p...num=1078469070
Just want to make sure there's no confusion...
"All orders placed are pre-orders. Orders will be shipped in the order in which they are recieved. Our schedualed (sic) ship date is March 22'nd."
This is unchanged since March 5...
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/YaBB.p...num=1078469070
Just want to make sure there's no confusion...
Last edited by emarkay; 03-11-2004 at 03:54 PM. Reason: confirmed spelling error
03-11-2004, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Black LS1 T/A
If I may take the time to copy and paste:
Now, THAT, gentlemen, is what I call a software company!
Those who would develop software, sit up and take notice!
THIS is how it's DONE!
If this leaves the vaporware stage and is as good as their existing product, so far, I know who will have MY money...
Now, THAT, gentlemen, is what I call a software company!
Those who would develop software, sit up and take notice!
THIS is how it's DONE!
If this leaves the vaporware stage and is as good as their existing product, so far, I know who will have MY money...
Everyday feels more and more like the movie Office Space.
Efi sounds like a good company....psst....you guys hiring???
03-11-2004, 05:57 PM
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i was being sarcastic. More precisely trying to fish the cost upgrade on the flashscan from my V2 ATAP to their tuning product.
come on efilive guys, give us some ideas on pricing. I like your software but money and time are just that.
You can give us efilive owners a rough estimate on our investment cost to your new product, or some pricing?
Seriously, so i got $400 into efilive pro, then if i gotta pay alot more to go to flashscan/tuner i might be better selling off my efilive rig and buying hptuners.
i truly hope your product is competitively priced and you'd offer us the "difference in price" option. That would be very cool.
In our company your azz works 24/7 till the software makes its deadline or some foreigner in india gets your job. Thats good enough incentive for good coding, and timely-ness. werd.
weeds out the real programmers from the lamers.
come on efilive guys, give us some ideas on pricing. I like your software but money and time are just that.
You can give us efilive owners a rough estimate on our investment cost to your new product, or some pricing?
Seriously, so i got $400 into efilive pro, then if i gotta pay alot more to go to flashscan/tuner i might be better selling off my efilive rig and buying hptuners.
i truly hope your product is competitively priced and you'd offer us the "difference in price" option. That would be very cool.
In our company your azz works 24/7 till the software makes its deadline or some foreigner in india gets your job. Thats good enough incentive for good coding, and timely-ness. werd.
weeds out the real programmers from the lamers.
03-11-2004, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by samz28
i was being sarcastic. More precisely trying to fish the cost upgrade on the flashscan from my V2 ATAP to their tuning product.
Originally Posted by samz28
You can give us efilive owners a rough estimate on our investment cost to your new product, or some pricing?
Originally Posted by samz28
i truly hope your product is competitively priced and you'd offer us the "difference in price" option. That would be very cool.
Originally Posted by samz28
In our company your azz works 24/7 till the software makes its deadline or some foreigner in india gets your job. Thats good enough incentive for good coding, and timely-ness. werd.
(Aplogies to Monty Python)
Regards
Paul
