My tuner says get BS3
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From: KS
My tuner says get BS3 So like the title says that's his advice. Im running a twin turbo setup on E85 looking at 800+ to the wheels. I must keep stock gauges and from the search I did we will simply use the stock computer for that and the bs3 for engine management. The car is a 6 speed. Im considering this because the crazy weather here in Kansas will swing from hot to cold in one day. It's not a daily driver but I want to have that ability. So is it worth it?
Is it worth it? No. When ever possible, use an OE controller. Not to mention BS3 is pretty archaic. I'd go Holley or FAST before I went BS3. 800 rwhp even on E85 ain't squat. You can do it with a GM controller no problem. And it will work better as long as the tuner is worth his salt.
PS, as long as you're not trying to RPM beyond the limits of the GM controller.
PS, as long as you're not trying to RPM beyond the limits of the GM controller.
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From: KS
No I'm not going to exceed 7000. I'm looking at camming it for a shift point of 6800. The NA motor I pulled out I was shifting at 7800 it worked great.
The "tuner" is saying that it may take 2 days to tune this thing down to the nats *** with the stock computer and talking about can't switch from open loop to closed loop. I get what he is saying but I get the same feeling that you guys are saying. The BS3 and other aftermarket stuff is light years behind a stock computers reliability. I searched it to death and all I see is how there is some problem with this or that on BS3 and whatever other stuff. I have the FAST EZ-EFI on my rock crawler Jeep and it is not as nice as it's marketed. It dies half the time when coming to a stop when not at full running temp for at least 10 miles. Looking at the hand held readout it's pooring fuel to it and just killing it. I still gotta call them on that. So I won't even consider a FAST product.
The "tuner" is saying that it may take 2 days to tune this thing down to the nats *** with the stock computer and talking about can't switch from open loop to closed loop. I get what he is saying but I get the same feeling that you guys are saying. The BS3 and other aftermarket stuff is light years behind a stock computers reliability. I searched it to death and all I see is how there is some problem with this or that on BS3 and whatever other stuff. I have the FAST EZ-EFI on my rock crawler Jeep and it is not as nice as it's marketed. It dies half the time when coming to a stop when not at full running temp for at least 10 miles. Looking at the hand held readout it's pooring fuel to it and just killing it. I still gotta call them on that. So I won't even consider a FAST product.
No I'm not going to exceed 7000. I'm looking at camming it for a shift point of 6800. The NA motor I pulled out I was shifting at 7800 it worked great.
The "tuner" is saying that it may take 2 days to tune this thing down to the nats *** with the stock computer and talking about can't switch from open loop to closed loop. I get what he is saying but I get the same feeling that you guys are saying. The BS3 and other aftermarket stuff is light years behind a stock computers reliability. I searched it to death and all I see is how there is some problem with this or that on BS3 and whatever other stuff. I have the FAST EZ-EFI on my rock crawler Jeep and it is not as nice as it's marketed. It dies half the time when coming to a stop when not at full running temp for at least 10 miles. Looking at the hand held readout it's pooring fuel to it and just killing it. I still gotta call them on that. So I won't even consider a FAST product.
The "tuner" is saying that it may take 2 days to tune this thing down to the nats *** with the stock computer and talking about can't switch from open loop to closed loop. I get what he is saying but I get the same feeling that you guys are saying. The BS3 and other aftermarket stuff is light years behind a stock computers reliability. I searched it to death and all I see is how there is some problem with this or that on BS3 and whatever other stuff. I have the FAST EZ-EFI on my rock crawler Jeep and it is not as nice as it's marketed. It dies half the time when coming to a stop when not at full running temp for at least 10 miles. Looking at the hand held readout it's pooring fuel to it and just killing it. I still gotta call them on that. So I won't even consider a FAST product.
But again, back to your original post, I would not go standalone over the GM controller. Not at that power level. It shouldn't take any longer to get right than a standalone would. A good tuner could dial in the VE using the A/F error histogram in no time. From there it's just dialing in the timing at WOT and then idle airflow parameters, and return to idle. Do the cold start stuff the next morning and you should be good.
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From: KS
Thank you edcmat. So his saying 2 days of tuning is just an admission of ignorance? I did ask if he had done a tune on a setup similar to this to have a base tune the answer was no. He answered some of my questions with answers that made sense. Like he said make sure the injectors I get have the specs with them. We don't want drilled out injectors. At this point I'm leery of his ability. I don't want to be his guinea pig. Picking a tuner is harder than picking a cam! And maybe more important. I will keep the stock computer on your advice as was my first instinct.
Thank you edcmat. So his saying 2 days of tuning is just an admission of ignorance? I did ask if he had done a tune on a setup similar to this to have a base tune the answer was no. He answered some of my questions with answers that made sense. Like he said make sure the injectors I get have the specs with them. We don't want drilled out injectors. At this point I'm leery of his ability. I don't want to be his guinea pig. Picking a tuner is harder than picking a cam! And maybe more important. I will keep the stock computer on your advice as was my first instinct.
If you or he needs help, let me know. Send me an email. I can help you from here for a fee. I do get paid to do this.
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From: CT/NJ
I can see why a tuner would recomend you to go standalone. Stock ecus do stupid things like P1518s and they are all tuned off of reverse engineered hack job software that can be really annoying at times. But, looking from a cost benifit standpoint, rather than a make the tuners job easier standpoint, there are a lot fewer instances where the standalone makes sense now days.
So, in your case, it sounds more likely that it is time to find a new tuner, not a new computer.
So, in your case, it sounds more likely that it is time to find a new tuner, not a new computer.
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From: KS
I see too many problems with the aftermarket stuff. There are entire threads stickied dedicated to BS3 problems. That is what scares me. I don't want an entire bank of cylinders dropping off at midnight Saturday on my way home. And then its send the box in and do this and try that and all I would want to really do is get my hands around the guys neck that built such an inferior product. And I don't mean bs3 just whatever system I might have ended up with.
For that power level a stock PCM will do fine. I would throw a Custom OS on there from EFI Live and get to it. Like Ed said, if your tuner has a good fundemental understanding of how to TUNE, then he should be fine with your project. If he's a trial and error type of guy and still learning, then that could be a different story.
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From: KS
Funny you mentioned the different os. That is what he says he would want to do. And something about upgrading to a 2002 year system? Mine is a 2000. Sounds like he may be the guy after all.
I see too many problems with the aftermarket stuff. There are entire threads stickied dedicated to BS3 problems. That is what scares me. I don't want an entire bank of cylinders dropping off at midnight Saturday on my way home. And then its send the box in and do this and try that and all I would want to really do is get my hands around the guys neck that built such an inferior product. And I don't mean bs3 just whatever system I might have ended up with.
I wouldn't count him out just because he said it would take him 2 days. From everything else you've said about him, he sounds competent. Lemme know how it goes. You can contact me through email as well. It's actually easier for me to respond that way.
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From: KS
So I bad mouthed the ez efi here and it took until now to find out that I had a bad O2 sensor. Then they sent me a new one. It was bad out of the box. That is what stumped all of our diagnosing. Just wanted to clear that up. I had to endure months of them telling me to rewire it because I had noise causing the problem. Finally after I paid for shipping twice they tested everything and now its working good.
Last edited by 2000RATA; Feb 26, 2012 at 06:49 PM.
