Tuning with a MS4
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 65
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From: Ft. Rucker AL
Tuning with a MS4 Have any of you been able to tune a car with a MS4 cam so that it dosn't feel like it is surging while going 30-40 mph in 3rd or 4th gear at about 1500 RPM's? I had a shop tell me it would be next to impossible because the cam does not create enough power at such low RPM's.
What gear do you have? The MS4 will surge at lower RPM vs MPH due to the size of it. Its not that it doesnt make power there though. Its the way the cam is designed with the higher duration and narrower LSA. You can normally add some air in the throttle cracker tables to compensate, if that does not work then you will have to back some timing out at those speeds, which sucks because if you go over those cells in 1st and 2nd gear it will feel like it is down on power, but sometimes you have to live with compromises.
I believe I have seen a few tuned where you would only have surging under 1300 rpm or so, but still that is low in a heavily cammed car. Putting in some 3.90s or 4.10s in the rear will help that out though.
I believe I have seen a few tuned where you would only have surging under 1300 rpm or so, but still that is low in a heavily cammed car. Putting in some 3.90s or 4.10s in the rear will help that out though.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 65
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From: Ft. Rucker AL
It still has the stock 3.42 gears in it. If I could get it where it only surged around 1300 that would be great. Where I live I have to drive for several miles I'm a 30 mph zone and it drives me crazy!
Your tuner is gonna have to spend some time with it, most don't want to do that because it costs them time. Mine spent 2 days with my Torquer V3, which is also known for a finicky cam, and it doesn't surge at all. If it comes down to pulling timing I told him to do it, but it drives like a dream now.
I have tuned MS4's with good results, excelent drivability without surging.
However, they had 3.73 or 4.10 gears.
You may be pushing it too far. Use a lower shift or install at least a 3.73 gear. Those cams are intended for high revving and mid to high powerband. No tuning can compensate for mismatched components.
Any high cam will surge if you drive it in high shift and lower RPM, it's in their nature, they just lack the torque at those RPM
However, they had 3.73 or 4.10 gears.
You may be pushing it too far. Use a lower shift or install at least a 3.73 gear. Those cams are intended for high revving and mid to high powerband. No tuning can compensate for mismatched components.
Any high cam will surge if you drive it in high shift and lower RPM, it's in their nature, they just lack the torque at those RPM
It is possible to get them pretty good, but there is a point where they just aren't happy... find someone really good with big cams, or keep it in a lower gear in the 30mph zone...
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Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 65
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From: Ft. Rucker AL
Right now i'm stationed at Ft.Rucker AL, it's in the south east corner of the state. So I would be willing to take it to Birmingham, Montgomery, Panama city, Pennsicole, And maybe even Atlanta.
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 181
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I think your missing everyones point. Your current mod combination is not correct for the cam selected. You need to get updated rear gears intalled (3.73 min., 4.11 recommend). You have a 6 speed. You can get 4.11 gears and STILL be at a lower rpm than a 4 speed automatic in top gear. That's a more realistic solution. A retune is costly and may end with the same results...gear recommend.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Rucker AL
Tampa is a bit further then I care to drive for a tune. I get the point behind changing the gears, but I'm basically trying to get the car ready to sell. So I really don't want to put more time and money in changing gears.
I would recommend The Tuning School. Really in that area, you cannot get much better than them. Precision Motorsports used to be in the same building as them. Great bunch of guys and an in house dyno.
I don't mean to be rude, but anybody who installs a high 230's/low 240's camshaft in a car with stock 3.42 gears needs to quit reading the internet as they were a victim of internet marketing and hype. A camshaft should be based on the characteristics of the entire car. Not what's "cool" to use on the internet.
That being said, an MS4 is going to have some low end buck no matter what you do, in a 346ci engine.
That being said, an MS4 is going to have some low end buck no matter what you do, in a 346ci engine.
Last edited by Damian; Nov 25, 2011 at 01:26 PM.
I have tuned a 348ci with a MS4, and got the surging down to almost none. granted the car had 4.10s. It will just take some time, also +1 for the Tuning School in Tampa. just finished there class and thought it was worth every penny!
Thinks it's pretty much been covered. You need 4.11 for sure with that 6 speed, and you also sound like you are chugging in too high a gear for the given MPH therefore surging. These cams are not impossible to tune but they do take time for sure. Most of it can be tuned in the Throttle Cracker/Follower tables as well as the airflow tables.
