ACCELR8

Can bad check values in the A.I.R. system cause these codes:

P0135 - HO2S Heater Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 1
P0155 - Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit (bank 2, sensor 1)

Thanks,

Jim

p.s. I posted this question in the External Engine forum, also. Sorry for the duplicate post, but I wasn't sure which forum was most appropriate.

ACCELR8

anyone?

dissonance

sounds like you might have a fuse blown... it's very unlikly that the air system could cause this. the car would show a air code also.

check all the fuses under the hood

ACCELR8

Thanks for the reply!

I just checked the fuses and they're all good. Any other ideas?

samz28

i got that after installing long tubes on cold days intermittently. Did you use o2 extensions? Swap them if so.

This P0135 occurred randomly, mostly really cold mornings, now with spring, its gone.

ACCELR8

Yes, I used O2 extensions. How would swapping them help? Are they made poorly and the wires come loose after a while?

Thanks,

Jim

p.s. I've been getting the P0135 code continuously for the last eight months (however, the car is stored in the winter). Just resently I started getting the P0155 code. These codes are driving me nuts!

dissonance

i have got the code one time with my headers and it was only on bank 1 sensor 1. it was -5 out side.

do you have a scan tool? autotap or efilive? something like that?

i dont think the wires would have come lose... if they where lose i dont think the car would even run. but it's worth a shot to check them. some times the o2 extensions are not made very well... where did you buy them? did you get the slp header kit? i'm running the ones in that kit and have had no problems. "other then stated above"

do you have an off-road pipe? o2 sims for the rear o2's?

as samz28 stated are you getting these codes on warm days also? your clearing the codes after you get them right? if you dont clear them the car will take some time before they clear them selfs

ACCELR8

Dissonance,

I have Autotap and use it to clear the codes. However, they come back within a couple of days of driving (maybe 50 miles or so). If I don't clear the code it will never go away. Last year I drove the car all summer without clearing the code and it didn't go away once.
I'm running cats and all four O2 sensors and the extension are the ones that came with the SLP LT installation kit.

I'm really at a lose. I can't figure out why I'm throwing these codes and I have to get my emmissions test in a couple months. Without fixing this problem I won't pass the emmissions test.

Thanks for everyones replies and please keep your suggestions coming.

Thanks,

Jim

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

I think it pertains to the headers making the O2s run
too cold for good output. If you could do some header
wrap it might help that, although too much of a good
thing might hurt welds / bungs so probably keep it off
the last 6" near the heads and 1"-2" below the last
topside bung. Probably a bitch to do once on the car
but even if you just did what you can reach from
below, you might retain enough heat to keep them
happier.

And before you pull up, make sure everything is good
and hot, maybe even program your fans back to the
stock stupid settings, and go in with fresh oil too.

dissonance

a hot motor will help pass emssions... but if they plug in to the pcm and see a code your not going to pass no matter what. there are tons of guys running headers with out these codes. headers are known to cause this but like i said i have headers and only seen it once and it was very very cold out... it happened about min after start up, cleared the code and have never had a problem since. i also know alot of guys with headers that have not had this problem.

now with autotap, log all the o2 sensors "just the sensors nothing else" move the key to the point where the car is ready to start but dont start it. now watch the o2 sensors... you should see the mvolts slowly going down. all for should do this. after maybe 2 min they should be moving down a fair amount.

if you see any that are going very slow or not go down at all then the heater is not working in that o2 for some reasion. if this is the case try moving the rear o2's to the front and the fronts to the back. try this again and see if the problem follows the o2 or the bank it's self.

it's unlikly that the two front o2 would not be heating up... but it's worth a shot. you have cats right? if you do i dont see how you could be having this problem with having a real problem with the o2's. this started after after the header install? have you check the wire it's self, it's not burnt is it? i had to zip tie my wires to keep them away from the headers.

now back to the post it's self "Can bad check values in the A.I.R. system cause these codes" after thinking about this more you could have burned the check vavles up, but i still think you would show a code for the check vavle system. do you remmber if the headers had a very small hole for the air tubs for the check values. this help them from getting burned up. they make a sounds if there burned up... it's exahsut gases getting by the check value.

samz28

dude, i'm telling you, check the o2 extensions first. Swap them. If problem goes to p0134 bingo. crappy wiring.

If not, buy a set of new o2 sensors and be done with it.

My efilive logs showed even with the code both sensors hitting the same peak/low voltage levels as soon as closed loop started (134F? ect) so i know its not the sensors.

efilive is a handy tool Best scan tool hands down i got one for sale for $275

ACCELR8

Dissonance,

Yes, I have cats. And the problem did not start immediately after the LT install. When I first installed the LT's I threw a code (don't remember what it was). I had it deleted and it never came back. About a year later I started having a problem with B2S1. It was a heater circuit code and another code related to B2S1. Someone on this board mentioned that those are common codes when there's an exhaust leak in front of the cat. I couldn't find a leak any where, but I had the AIR tube to header connect off numerous times in the past. So I took that connection apart and used high temp RTV to seal the connection. The code went away for only a day. That was last fall. So for most of the fall I messed around with that connection thinking that was my problem, but never solved the problem. I ended up storing the car over winter without resolving the issue. Now that the weather is starting to break I've been starting the car and going on short drives (with the SES light on). The other day I decided to pull the code and now not only do I get a heater circuit code on B2S1, but I also get the same code on B1S1.

I didn't have an opportunity to get under the car, but I did have a chance to monitor the O2's per your suggestion (monitored them for about 3 minutes). In general, all the O2's voltage decrease at about the same rate except one. B1S2 decreased considerably more rapidly than the others. I don't know if that means anything. I attached the data log (I forgot to log the time, but hopefully that doesn't matter).


Let me know if you think this data means anything.

Thanks for your help.


Samz28,

Thanks for you suggestion. If this data indicates a problem with the O2's then I'll swap out the extension and O2's like you and Dissonance recommended.

Thanks again!

ACCELR8

Obviously my attachment didn't work. When I figure it out I'll attach it

ACCELR8

O.K. I guess it did work. I know what your thinking - "and he works on his car "

dissonance

ok your next step is to take the sensor in bank 1 sensor 2 "should be drivers side rear o2 and move it to the bank 2 sensor 1 "other side front o2". then move the one that was in the front to the rear.

do this same test and report back, also clear the codes and try driving the car around after you swap the o2's "log them" see if you only get a code for bank1 sensor1 you might also get a code for bank1 sensor2. if you do then you know the atleast one of the o2's is bad. if you still get both codes for the front then your looking at a posible problem with the wires...

most of the o2 heated up fast... the bank 1 rear sensors seems to be the best. the sensor in bank2s1 looks to be the slowest of all. this is why i want to swap these two... this should make it clear if it's the sensors or something else!

let us know!

ACCELR8

Thanks for the quick response

Unfortunately I won't be able to work on the car for probably another week. But as soon as I swap the O2's a collect some data I'll reply to this post.

Thanks again your help is greatly appreciated.

Jim

dissonance

I'll be watching this thread, good luck.

ACCELR8

Well I finally got an hour to work on the car.

Initially, I monitored the O2's. I turn the key, without starting the car, and checked if the O2's were heating up. All the O2's were heating up at the same rate except B2S1. That O2 was not heating up at all. All the O2's started at 0.445v. B2S1 was stil at 0.445v when all the other O2's hit 0.300v. Then I stopped monitoring and went under the car. Here's were I start to get embarrassed. Apparently I screwed up a while back. When I installed my poly motor mounts I decided to reroute and extend the wire harness that contains the starter, crankcase sensor, and O2 wires. After I extended them, for some dumb reason, I connected the wire extension to the O2 wires and plugged it into B2S2 (it must have been a long day). Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the wires that are part of the starter and crankcase sensor harness go to the front O2 (B2S1) and the wires that drop down along the side of the tranny go to the back O2 (B2S2)? So I took the extension off, connected the wires that are part of the starter and crankcase sensor harness to B2S1 and connected the wires that drop down along the side of the tranny to B2S2. At this point I monitored the O2's again. The exact same results. Now I switched the O2 in B1S2 with the O2 in B2S1. Monitored and the exact same result. I placed a brand new O2 in B2S1. Monitored again and the exact same results. I removed the new O2 and put the old O2's back in their original locations. Monitored it again and EVERY O2 was heating up at the same rate.

I cleared the code and took it for a short drive (approximately 5 miles). Unfortunately, I wasn't able to collect any data. The SES light is still off, but I'm sure that won't last for long.

I'm no mechanic, that's pretty obvious, but I don't think anythings wrong with the O2's. My next thought would be to look at the wires I extended, but that doesn't make sense to me because I'm getting both a P0135 and P0155 code. Here's a wild guess, could it be caused by loose header bolts? I heard these codes could be caused by exhaust leaks. If the header bolts are loose, air will get into the system prior to the O2's and trigger the code. (I don't know if that's true, it's just a thought.)

FYI - I extended the wires approximately 40 inches with 22 gage wire. I twisted them together, soldered them, put that heat shrink stuff around the connection, and then wrapped it with electrical tape. I don't think this is my problem, but who knows?)

Feel free to comment

Thanks,

Jim

dissonance

yes the two wires that run down the side of trans go to b1s2 and b2s2... the ones that run down the side of the motor are for the two front sensors. plugging the front o2 in the rears would cause some problems... dont know if it would cause the problem your having... cutting the wires could also cause problems... if you used the right gage wires and the connections are good, i dont see how that would mess things up.

now you stated after swaping the o2's you found that you did get a o2 to heat up in the bank you had problems with in the 1st place. this may tell you that the o2 are bad or you had a bad connections to the others.

exhaust leaks will most likly cause a slow responce code from the o2's. i guess in some cases you might get a heater code to, but it should also have a slow responce code. it should be clear if you have a leak around the heads and the headers. you should see black all around where the leak is. it should be a little louder around the leak also... smell exahust around the motor? i know it would be hard but just run your hands around the port and see if you feel air coming from them.

why not get a 10mm on all the bolts and make sure they are tight?

i would run the car a little while with all the wires pluged in right places and see what happens. keep reporting back.

ACCELR8

Unfortunately, I only get to drive and work on the car on the weekends. This weekend I plan to tighten all the header bolts and put some miles on the car. Hopefully over 100 miles if the weather permits. Also, I plan to monitor the O2's at WOT and also the Ltrims at cruise. We'll see what happens. I'll let you know.

Thanks,

Jim