80lb injector data base tune
09-25-2016, 11:29 AM
#61
Teching In
I got hold of a guy from hp tuners, that value 'min fuel milligrams' is not on a gen 4 ECU, as he said; they are COMPLETELY different computers and that value is not imputed into the code.
That being said; I did lower the value on 'min injector PW' because it was set at .5 and that is what my charts said my injectors' pw was. I lowered it to .1, at idle I was seeing values of .3-.4 and my AFR came up slightly to sit in the 12s.
I'm still kinda weary about this, I was told by the tuning support company I bought my course from that I should ignore the AFR value at idle, because the computer uses the narrow band 02 sensors to read and aim for stoich. That's all fine and good from from my understanding the 02s in our gm engines seem to define 14.7 AFR at 450(ish)mv.
My o2 readings shoot up to the 900s and pretty much sit constant at 947. confirming my belief that my AFR is correct in reading 12s.
I decided to work past it for now, I just calibrated the MAF at part throttle and am working on the VE table, I AM getting decent values while watching my fuel trims, so it seems my problem is isolated to idle. I haven't begun WOT yet, but I suspect the large injectors will do fine with the turbo spooling.
Once I feel my WOT and part throttle are good, I may play with the offset chart and short pulse adder a bit to see a difference.
If anyone has made (or knows someone who has) made these Semiens deka 80s run on a gen 4 4.8 or 5.3 turbo, PLEASE chime in. If I cant get the idle dialed in, I'm gunna recommend to guys with new builds to spend the cash and get some injectors with proven data. I'm kinda wishing I woulda spend 1000 instead of 500 on injectors, for ease of learning to tune -I think it woulda helped
That being said; I did lower the value on 'min injector PW' because it was set at .5 and that is what my charts said my injectors' pw was. I lowered it to .1, at idle I was seeing values of .3-.4 and my AFR came up slightly to sit in the 12s.
I'm still kinda weary about this, I was told by the tuning support company I bought my course from that I should ignore the AFR value at idle, because the computer uses the narrow band 02 sensors to read and aim for stoich. That's all fine and good from from my understanding the 02s in our gm engines seem to define 14.7 AFR at 450(ish)mv.
My o2 readings shoot up to the 900s and pretty much sit constant at 947. confirming my belief that my AFR is correct in reading 12s.
I decided to work past it for now, I just calibrated the MAF at part throttle and am working on the VE table, I AM getting decent values while watching my fuel trims, so it seems my problem is isolated to idle. I haven't begun WOT yet, but I suspect the large injectors will do fine with the turbo spooling.
Once I feel my WOT and part throttle are good, I may play with the offset chart and short pulse adder a bit to see a difference.
If anyone has made (or knows someone who has) made these Semiens deka 80s run on a gen 4 4.8 or 5.3 turbo, PLEASE chime in. If I cant get the idle dialed in, I'm gunna recommend to guys with new builds to spend the cash and get some injectors with proven data. I'm kinda wishing I woulda spend 1000 instead of 500 on injectors, for ease of learning to tune -I think it woulda helped
09-26-2016, 08:27 AM
#62
i didnt realize you were using a gen 4 computer. sorry to have misled you with my info.
are you using a wideband in addition to the stock o2's? it makes life much easier.
I'm not sure about gen 4 computers, but for my set up I used a OLSD operating system, and got rid of the maf. after the idle was pretty close, adjustments to the main VE was the next crucial bit.
are you using a wideband in addition to the stock o2's? it makes life much easier.
I'm not sure about gen 4 computers, but for my set up I used a OLSD operating system, and got rid of the maf. after the idle was pretty close, adjustments to the main VE was the next crucial bit.
09-26-2016, 11:11 AM
#63
Teching In
Actually your recommendation to lower the min pulse width helped a lot, got it up to 12:1 on my wideband. I think I need to just play with the offset numbers a bit to lean it out. Part throttle seems fine though. I will be going speed density, I started at 9 lbs boost, once I tune that and learn the process, I'll get a 3 bar map and SD tune, go for 20lb boost.
10-03-2016, 07:17 AM
#64
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Actually your recommendation to lower the min pulse width helped a lot, got it up to 12:1 on my wideband. I think I need to just play with the offset numbers a bit to lean it out. Part throttle seems fine though. I will be going speed density, I started at 9 lbs boost, once I tune that and learn the process, I'll get a 3 bar map and SD tune, go for 20lb boost.
Using a 4gen computer as well on an LS7 and trying to find data on these injectors is horrid. Tried converting Jake's data over the 4gen values but that netted me nothing but problems.
I had the most success with setting flow rate vs press flat at 57.3 and the short pulse limit to 2.508.
Anything you would like to share would be very appreciated.
10-03-2016, 11:13 AM
#67
Teching In
My tuning is on hiatas for now, being in canada the weather is getting cold, I had some painting I had to get done on the truck and I needed to do it now. Next week I'll try this data!! Thanks jake! I'll let you Guys know how it turns out.
10-03-2016, 02:50 PM
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It can never be easy
Thanks
10-26-2016, 05:19 PM
#70
10-27-2016, 11:42 AM
#72
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Well,
I purchased the set of Seimens Deka 80LB from fleabay and will be testing all of this out.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282055582228?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I hope I didn't purchase the wrong stuff.....
I purchased the set of Seimens Deka 80LB from fleabay and will be testing all of this out.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282055582228?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I hope I didn't purchase the wrong stuff.....
10-28-2016, 06:26 PM
#73
I grabbed a set of lq4 24s today im wiring them in ill worry about injectors last.
Last edited by mrich0908; 10-28-2016 at 06:32 PM.
12-11-2016, 06:42 PM
#74
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I want to thank you for the information you've shared, as well as others in this thread. I have a stock 5.3 with ls1 heads, 78mm turbo with 80lb SD injectors. It's in an IS300 on stock fuel pressure (43psi) with a walboro 400. Tune is OLSD. I was having the worst time trying to get it to idle, it was hunting/loping and afr's were 10:1-11:1 rich. I changed:
1.) "MIN FUEL MILLIGRAMS" from .016 to .010.
2.) "MIN INJECTOR PULSE" from .593 to .175 (but it would show as .182?)
3.) Scaled my "FLOW RATE vs KPA" down after finding a calculator online because I'm only running 43psi fuel pressure.
My idle cleared up almost instantly and I've dialed my VE table in almost perfect. Thanks to everyone who contributed in suggesting the changes I made above!
1.) "MIN FUEL MILLIGRAMS" from .016 to .010.
2.) "MIN INJECTOR PULSE" from .593 to .175 (but it would show as .182?)
3.) Scaled my "FLOW RATE vs KPA" down after finding a calculator online because I'm only running 43psi fuel pressure.
My idle cleared up almost instantly and I've dialed my VE table in almost perfect. Thanks to everyone who contributed in suggesting the changes I made above!
02-05-2017, 04:25 PM
#76
Bumping this for some help.
Previous set-up: H/C LS1 400/400 n/a on walbro 255, svt 42 lbs injectors, stock tank, lines fpr.
Current: Same H/C but added a 76mm turbo and 80 lbs dekas.
Used data to get my turbo LS1 running on 80 lbs dekas. Fired right up , idles pretty decent. Only issue i'm having is idle is pig rich.
Changed injector flow rate data, offset, pulse corrections, limits, and the sometimes overlooked transient min fuel mgs.
While under a load my AFRs are a lot closer to my target AFR, it's just idle that I'm having issues.
Changes in the VE table have no effect so I'm assuming it's a fueling table issue. Also decreased Min injector pulse to .182 which did nothing at idle.
Previous set-up: H/C LS1 400/400 n/a on walbro 255, svt 42 lbs injectors, stock tank, lines fpr.
Current: Same H/C but added a 76mm turbo and 80 lbs dekas.
Used data to get my turbo LS1 running on 80 lbs dekas. Fired right up , idles pretty decent. Only issue i'm having is idle is pig rich.
Changed injector flow rate data, offset, pulse corrections, limits, and the sometimes overlooked transient min fuel mgs.
While under a load my AFRs are a lot closer to my target AFR, it's just idle that I'm having issues.
Changes in the VE table have no effect so I'm assuming it's a fueling table issue. Also decreased Min injector pulse to .182 which did nothing at idle.
02-05-2017, 08:37 PM
#77
Try the transient min fuel mgs to .035. That's the stable floor on those if you have issues and see if you have the ability to tweak the VE table down. Otherwise, if that doesn't work, go to .008. I don't know your cam specs. But 53.9 in the 800 column for 45-50kPa... I'd take it down 10%. Does that move your fueling?
Your log you are only going down to 2.6ms. Those injectors can get down to 1.8ish. And it's seeing .72 lambda? Your narrowbands are right around 450mv tho. And they don't move. Are they hooked up and just hanging? lol They should still be reading something and pegging if they are that rich even if you're in OL.
Your log you are only going down to 2.6ms. Those injectors can get down to 1.8ish. And it's seeing .72 lambda? Your narrowbands are right around 450mv tho. And they don't move. Are they hooked up and just hanging? lol They should still be reading something and pegging if they are that rich even if you're in OL.
Last edited by JakeFusion; 02-05-2017 at 08:45 PM.
02-06-2017, 04:34 PM
#78
Try the transient min fuel mgs to .035. That's the stable floor on those if you have issues and see if you have the ability to tweak the VE table down. Otherwise, if that doesn't work, go to .008. I don't know your cam specs. But 53.9 in the 800 column for 45-50kPa... I'd take it down 10%. Does that move your fueling?
Your log you are only going down to 2.6ms. Those injectors can get down to 1.8ish. And it's seeing .72 lambda? Your narrowbands are right around 450mv tho. And they don't move. Are they hooked up and just hanging? lol They should still be reading something and pegging if they are that rich even if you're in OL.
Your log you are only going down to 2.6ms. Those injectors can get down to 1.8ish. And it's seeing .72 lambda? Your narrowbands are right around 450mv tho. And they don't move. Are they hooked up and just hanging? lol They should still be reading something and pegging if they are that rich even if you're in OL.
Decreased 10% in VE. No effect.
Decreased transient to .008 and decreased VE by another 15% and saw afr leaned out to about 11.3ish(previously 11.0)
Decreased VE at idle from 53 to about mid 20s which got my afr to about 13.0.
Injectors are down from 2.6 to 1.9
Stock 02 sensors are unplugged.
Will post log when I get home but the VE adjustment seems drastic.
Last edited by CyberGrey Z28; 02-06-2017 at 05:48 PM.
02-06-2017, 09:43 PM
#79
Yeah, that's drastic. I had a 16 degree overlap cam that was in the 30s on a 346 with 52lbs Ford GT500 injectors. You should probably be in the 40s tho depending on the cam size.
But as you can see, you're nearly at the bottom of the injector with it at 1.9ms and you still aren't at stoich. You may have to do some offset raping to get them to idle right. Zero out of the short pulse added. If that doesn't help, go into your offset table in the 11.5-14V range and decrease everything by 10%.
You may be able to regain some control of the injector with the VE table. Keep min fuel mg at .008. It's on the wrong side of the knee that low, but let's keep it there.
But as you can see, you're nearly at the bottom of the injector with it at 1.9ms and you still aren't at stoich. You may have to do some offset raping to get them to idle right. Zero out of the short pulse added. If that doesn't help, go into your offset table in the 11.5-14V range and decrease everything by 10%.
You may be able to regain some control of the injector with the VE table. Keep min fuel mg at .008. It's on the wrong side of the knee that low, but let's keep it there.
02-07-2017, 02:20 AM
#80
I'm running the TR 224/224 .563/.563 114. Was going to swap it out but love the street manners.
I'll try to zero out the pulse adder to see if it gives me more control of VE. I was reading on hptuners about decreasing the offsets so that will be my next step.
I'm also considering making the switch to E85 earlier than expected now if I'm going to heavily modify the VE table. My plan was to tune for gas as a baseline then make the switch to e85 when I my baseline was stable.
Thanks for the input.
I'll try to zero out the pulse adder to see if it gives me more control of VE. I was reading on hptuners about decreasing the offsets so that will be my next step.
I'm also considering making the switch to E85 earlier than expected now if I'm going to heavily modify the VE table. My plan was to tune for gas as a baseline then make the switch to e85 when I my baseline was stable.
Thanks for the input.