lizeec

iTrader: (57)

You say you drove your car around the block after the break-in? Why didn't you just drive it to the tuner at that point or trailer it to your tuner? Why send in your PCM for another tune that is going to be changed anyways?

I am a business owner as well and there are certain customers that no matter how much money they have, you just don't want them as customers, they are unrealistic and just impossible to please. This ain't Burger King Sorry you don't get it your way!

96TurboLSX

iTrader: (2)

UUUUMMM where did i say it was running well enough to take it on a 120 mile round trip? go back to running your business of selling midget ****...k thanks !

Monte4ever

iTrader: (2)

Lmao ^^^^^

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

Ummm.....what's wrong with naked midgets?!?!

Keith_Shapiro

iTrader: (1)

I think we found another one of those customers......he simply asked a question and you took it way out of context, maybe therein lies your problem.

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

One of those customers that I would gladly hand them their money back and tell them to have a nice day...

lizeec

iTrader: (57)

You said you only installed a cam? What the hell kind of a cam did you install that your old tune is so far off? My exact point you are the type of customer nobody wants, you are a cry baby and unrealistic, go back to Burger King and complain on the amount of pickles on your burger. And the midget **** business is going great since your wife and sister started working here even though they are butt fugly.

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

That's being more than a bit harsh,IMHO. It is not unusual for someone to assume that since they installed a new cam, they should probably get another tune file update to get them to the dyno. It happens. Right or wrong, it happens all the time. It is also not unreasonable to expect that the car should at least run well enough to make the trip. It appears to me that the OP just wants what he paid for...a running car that will make the trip to the dyno. Is that so unreasonable? After all, it seems that is what he paid for.

Granted, Steve is FAR from a fraud...and the OP (again, IMHO) is out of line for calling him such. But it sounds to me like the OP has been very reasonable (up until the point of creating this thread) in trying to contact Steve...and has not received a reply thus far. Is that so unreasonable as to expect a timely reply? I think not. Part of running a respected business, is dealing with problems in a timely manner. Yes, there are always "those customers"....the ones that should just be told to head on down the road to someone else. But am I the only one here that thinks the OP has been pretty reasonable up until the point of creating the title to this thread?

In for results......

zo6 vett

iTrader: (1)

The main reason any of the "bad Tunes" happen is that this in it self is a brand new industry. Many variables are in place both mechanical and electrical. Every application is a bit different. To boot, the Drag racer mentality is up front. the need to win and be the best over shadows the purpose. Optimize the tune to the machine set up.
No formal licensing on the state level or national level is needed to open shop. I have a licence to sell real estate. This is very controlled industry to protect the consumer. Microsoft has a tech. licensing program. Mechanics have the theirs. Doctors,lawyers ect..
It took me three months just to find liability insurance for calibrations.
Calibrations engineering , it seems, is yet to be dealt with. I have asked a few of the industry leaders as to how many true calibrations engineers are in the US. To my surprise the consensus is under 100.
The state of Ma. is at least thinking about a licensing program. If this is not done from within this will be done for us.

A new way to get the consumer a quality product or service is vital to the industry. Tuning in the after market is here to stay. the tool is still being refined.
We are working on it. For now we all have to agree that "the customer is always right". This is the first rule of any service industry. This industry is just very complex and the smoke as not settled as yet. These discussions are key to fixing it. All of us want the same thing. Make money and do no harm. The big picture is hardest to step back and look at when you are in the middle of your busy day. Yes, it is very difficult to make everyone happy. Lets stop pointing fingers and trashing each other. The job is too big and work needs to be done. How about a industry standard that puts a bar code decal on the SAE port. This would give the next shop a chance to make the re-cal without starting over. Time is the most important resource we can hope to manage.


that's my 2 cents,
mike

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

As well, the general attitude of many tuners seems to be "I don't have time to be answering phone calls or answering questions"....and as such, many have email-only contact options. This, in and of itself, is a problem. While I can understand the limited time of a small business owner working in a one-man shop while trying to remain (or even become) profitable, the "take the money and worry about it later" attitude seems to prevail in the mail-order tune markets. This was the main reason that I made the decision to learn to tune my own vehicles. It is, at least currently, an all-too-often reality. A solution that balances the shop owner's need to focus on in-house vehicle work AND mail-order support obligations would go a long way to curbing issues like the OP's. Shop work ethics weighs heavily in the equation as well....probably more than anything else.

zo6 vett

iTrader: (1)

now it is said out loud,

I to found this self tune option and also found out even in the best case it is a prison sentence for the very best. My wife looked at JMS,Monty Johnson and said:He is a tiger that built his own cage. He works his *** of on three dyno's all day. Still he can not have any quality of life, just work. He has to think for his whole crew . I am to really help him and all those like him.

mike ,when you have the time. i am long winded

MUSTANGBRKR02

iTrader: (91)

Yeah that is what we need a license program.... More government regulations. Please stop.

joecar

Government regulation is not possible since the EPA/CARB (government bodies) deem it illegal to modify emissions devices which is what the PCM/ECM is considered to be...

i.e. how can the government regulate something that is illegal... erh, hmmm, nevermind.

zo6 vett

iTrader: (1)

Why is it when any attempt to standardize something new we all fall back on "not more Government". I am saying we don't need government. In the old way of thinking. Think more in terms of YOU write the program and share it with us. We have a debate and it is done. The old ways of government were started with feather quell ,hand laid paper and delivered by messenger. Weeks latter a reply. This is all they had. Give the forefathers a laptop and a smart phone and see what you get?

This is an engineering problem not a political one. Have you notice our government officials cant get anything done? They think anyone that understand a computer is a geek. Not an expert or an engineer. The world is watching and getting a big laugh at our expense.
We joke about " hackers and engineers will rule the world"


How about a system built around the existing / future technology ? Do you still use the phone book? How about that pay phone? The big blue mail Box?
All the people that can not or do not par take in new tech should get out of the way. They will be dead before this new system can be built anyway. The tail can not keep wagging the dog.

Even the Y2K computer system is old news and never used.

Or, lets just stay all F**ked up and see how we come out in the world Wide Drag Race. At some point having a big stick will not work any more. China ,India and soon Africa will be bigger and stronger. We need to stay ahead of the curve an think our way out of the ****. We are, after all,
"the great experiment". We can build better,faster and more efficient anything.
Here at home with a price point.

Sorry for the rant,
mike

The status quo will be our demise.

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

I understand your reasoning behind a certification process of sorts, but have to respectfully disagree. As a couple of not-so-theoretical examples, I'll mention the "ASE Certified" mechanic at the dealership who can't accurately diagnose his way out of a cardboard box....same goes for the RN (I get to hear about this daily from my better half) or MD that fails to see the "big picture" with regards to their patients illness or symptoms....both HIGHLY "educated" people, yet supremely ignorant in many areas.....although I can't fathom seeing a non-licensed doctor. LOL

Sometimes, it's just plain laziness (lack of work ethic) that keeps them from being the best that they can be. Conversely, I'll site an example of a good friend of mine; an "un-educated" computer systems analyst/support tech/overall "guru" that was running support for a large corporation at the tender age of 15 (dad hired him on). Years later, he went to apply for a position with the State of Oregon in the SAME field that he was used to working in. He was turned down 5 times in 3 years. Finally, they gave him a shot....and he out-performed ALL of his predecessors. When he decided to move to Alaska (to start his own company), they BEGGED him not to leave. He did anyway, and provided a private consultation service (for a good fee) for the next 3 years....until someone else was brought up to speed.

I guess that my point here, is that IMHO, a certification process in this field is useless as so many other variables factor in to what makes a good tuner. I also personally like the thought of an "un-educated" person busting their ***, applying themselves, nurturing a reputation, and becoming successful through sheer determination and solid work ethics.

All the above being said, I agree that other solutions/options need to be explored. Right now, it looks to me like EFI Live is offering a pretty solid solution.

joecar

Let me remind you that the tuning industry has been around since the mid 1980's

Calibrations Engineer...? Does a mechanic/technician have to be an Mechanical Engineer to work on your car...? If a tuner had to go get a Bachelors degree in Engineering to be a tuner, there would be very few tuners.

The SAE, EPA, CARB all work together to control vehicle emissions... why would the SAE create a tuner certification/licensing/standards program for an activity that tampers with emissions...?

Currently, all the emissions test centers across the country are following some EPA/CARB standard (or some variations thereof, same as all vehicles are built to comply with California Emissions), and look what this gains us (owners of modified vehicles).

joecar

You mean the tuning industry should self-regulate itself...? That will never happen unless the government steps in.

zo6 vett

iTrader: (1)

It's a start,
The cafe and emissions laws are in a sense out dated . they where put in place with a 100k mile service life in mind. They had no idea that a well cared for gm truck has a million mile service life. All of the industry experts say a re-cal and new 02's at 50-60k miles. The pump wheres and even an cold and exhaust can make a change.

This just is not getting done. At least with a standardized service ,like the dealer's have, cars can get optimized for the fuel and usage they are being used for. Some 63 blends of fuel and all the 100's of thousands of old iron burning way to much fuel. They are all dirty anyway. think of 8-10% less fuel consumption world wide for 20 years. **** if they just run the best the can we all win.
remember that we are the used car factory for the planet. An optimization program leap frogs over all the quick fixes and gimmicks. Or we can do nothing , waste all our resources and hope the problems just go away.

What do i know ? i dont have a degree either. i just learned how to type here on the forums.

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

Been around for many decades. The process in which it is done (mechanical or electronic) makes no difference, the end result should be the same.

Some people just dont understand.. and then they point fingers at others because of their own lack of understanding.

JaYZeig

iTrader: (11)