Need KR Help!!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 4
From: Lawrenceville, GA
Need KR Help!!!! I am having big problems trying to get rid of the KR I am getting. I am getting KR in Cell 4,8,9,12,13,22. My IFR table has been reduced by 90% to get the LTFT's negative. My average LTFT at load is -3.7. I am using stock timing. My O2's are running 948/931. O2's AFR is 12.3 The KR average at load is 1.5.
At load the KR seems to be at the lower RPM (1000-2500).
I have replaced the plugs, cleaned the MAF.
Anyone have anything I can check?? Should I reduce the stock timing?
Help.
Bill
At load the KR seems to be at the lower RPM (1000-2500).
I have replaced the plugs, cleaned the MAF.
Anyone have anything I can check?? Should I reduce the stock timing?
Help.
Bill
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 225
Likes: 3
From: Beavercreek, Ohio
Bill
Is is possible that you are getting excessive oil in the intake manifold?
Someone here on the site has claimed that after installing a PVC catch can
to have gottin rid of KR. This is something I'm going to look into on mine
so I won't have to reduce anymore timing.
Good luck.
Is is possible that you are getting excessive oil in the intake manifold?
Someone here on the site has claimed that after installing a PVC catch can
to have gottin rid of KR. This is something I'm going to look into on mine
so I won't have to reduce anymore timing.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 4
From: Lawrenceville, GA
How do I tell if I have excessive oil in the intake manifold? Do I just take the TB off and look? I have checked so many things and now I have something else to check. The car still runs great but EFLive shows KR. I have not reduced any timing yet.
Bill
Bill
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 225
Likes: 3
From: Beavercreek, Ohio
Bill
What IS your stock timing at WOT?
I would think that looking at your plugs and in the intake
(pulling TB off) will tell you if there is excessive oil.
I installed a Predator Tune and while logging with
AT/EFIlive during testntune day I had ?# of KR and
my timing was almost 32.5 deg.
After a few more runs I got my timing down to 30 deg
with no KR. I don't know if that is still alot of timing or
not for stock internals but seems to run great.
I noticed that my intake had oil in it so I'll be going with a
catch can soon to reduce the oil burning.
Good luck.
What IS your stock timing at WOT?
I would think that looking at your plugs and in the intake
(pulling TB off) will tell you if there is excessive oil.
I installed a Predator Tune and while logging with
AT/EFIlive during testntune day I had ?# of KR and
my timing was almost 32.5 deg.
After a few more runs I got my timing down to 30 deg
with no KR. I don't know if that is still alot of timing or
not for stock internals but seems to run great.
I noticed that my intake had oil in it so I'll be going with a
catch can soon to reduce the oil burning.
Good luck.
Tough to run over 30 degrees total on these cars.
With most of the KR in the low - midband, you may
be seeing the effects of EGR removal; unless the
open-loop cells for these regions are made a little
fatter, the PCM is still "counting on the EGR" to keep
from lean pinging. The table I'm talking about, I have
seen in HPTuners as a fuel-air multiplier (divisor) that
indexes on MAP and RPM. Don't know what Edit calls
it but I would say to do some logging w/ MAP, RPM
and KR and pick off the "trouble spots", go to that
table and bump the values (which are all about 1.00
to 1.1xx) at any MAP*RPM "intersection" where you
had an -increasing- KR timing pull (the decay side
tells you nothing useful, the attack side says you
are getting live knock detects).
I would surely clean the MAF before pushing too far
into tuning and replace w/ a Purolator paper filter.
Then look immediately at the STFTs / LTFTs in driving
and see if they are drifting more negative. That would
indicate that crud had something to do with it. In my
opinion average LTFTs are not helpful, there's too much
mix there and too much bias toward idle and low cruise.
Pick off the max LTFT in the column, should be less than
zero and then OK.
With most of the KR in the low - midband, you may
be seeing the effects of EGR removal; unless the
open-loop cells for these regions are made a little
fatter, the PCM is still "counting on the EGR" to keep
from lean pinging. The table I'm talking about, I have
seen in HPTuners as a fuel-air multiplier (divisor) that
indexes on MAP and RPM. Don't know what Edit calls
it but I would say to do some logging w/ MAP, RPM
and KR and pick off the "trouble spots", go to that
table and bump the values (which are all about 1.00
to 1.1xx) at any MAP*RPM "intersection" where you
had an -increasing- KR timing pull (the decay side
tells you nothing useful, the attack side says you
are getting live knock detects).
I would surely clean the MAF before pushing too far
into tuning and replace w/ a Purolator paper filter.
Then look immediately at the STFTs / LTFTs in driving
and see if they are drifting more negative. That would
indicate that crud had something to do with it. In my
opinion average LTFTs are not helpful, there's too much
mix there and too much bias toward idle and low cruise.
Pick off the max LTFT in the column, should be less than
zero and then OK.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 4
From: Lawrenceville, GA
2001 does not come with EGR. I did remove the AIR. I will look in LS1Edit to see if I can find the table you are talking about but since my car never came with EGR it will probally not help.
I have cleaned the MAF with no help. I have not tried a purolator filter.
Thanks for the help.
BowlingSS
I have cleaned the MAF with no help. I have not tried a purolator filter.
Thanks for the help.
BowlingSS
Guest
Posts: n/a
may be simplistic but, is this an isolated recent development ? maybe you got some bad gas ? before you check anything else, i'd fill it up at a brand name station and add some octane booster to rule out bad fuel as a cause. even if it's been going on for awhile if you use the same station all the time especially an off brand their fuel may be substandard. also in my pcm [ truck] their is a table in edit called fuel ratio vs rpm modifier that from what i heard was 0's until 2000 when they started using it. also from what i've heard on modded engines this may cause kr from the added timing. the genral concensus seems to be that this table should be zeroed on highly modified engines and definatly if you are trying to change your base timing. hope this helps a little. e p.s this table is in the ign. tab
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Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 4
From: Lawrenceville, GA
Originally Posted by etc
may be simplistic but, is this an isolated recent development ? maybe you got some bad gas ? before you check anything else, i'd fill it up at a brand name station and add some octane booster to rule out bad fuel as a cause. even if it's been going on for awhile if you use the same station all the time especially an off brand their fuel may be substandard. also in my pcm [ truck] their is a table in edit called fuel ratio vs rpm modifier that from what i heard was 0's until 2000 when they started using it. also from what i've heard on modded engines this may cause kr from the added timing. the genral concensus seems to be that this table should be zeroed on highly modified engines and definatly if you are trying to change your base timing. hope this helps a little. e p.s this table is in the ign. tab
I will check out the fuel ratio vs rpm modifier table.
Thanks,
Bill
Last edited by Bill Bowling; Apr 23, 2004 at 02:57 PM.
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TECH Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
What does your PE vs RPM table look like? Perhaps jimmyblue's suggestion could help - add more to the PE table in the lower rpm range where you have trouble, plus a little overlap beyond the 1000-2500 range (maybe 800-2800)
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 4
From: Lawrenceville, GA
Originally Posted by deezel
What does your PE vs RPM table look like? Perhaps jimmyblue's suggestion could help - add more to the PE table in the lower rpm range where you have trouble, plus a little overlap beyond the 1000-2500 range (maybe 800-2800)
Bill
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 4
From: Lawrenceville, GA
I have increased the PE vs RPM table by 10%. I am still getting the KR.
I am going to start reducing the timing to see if that helps.
Bill
I am going to start reducing the timing to see if that helps.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Bowling; Apr 28, 2004 at 06:52 PM.