Holley E85 ????
04-11-2014, 06:03 PM
#1
Holley E85 ???? Hey guys just got my Holley Hp efi system for my ls3. Im in Southern California and I race at willow springs, Vegas, and northern Calif Stockton 99, etc..
I know I need to add 35-40 % on my fuel table for the e85 however my question is what AFR do i set for too rich and too Lean? and what is the perfect AFR for LS3 NA with headers, TB and CAI..
thanks
I know I need to add 35-40 % on my fuel table for the e85 however my question is what AFR do i set for too rich and too Lean? and what is the perfect AFR for LS3 NA with headers, TB and CAI..
thanks
04-14-2014, 09:38 PM
#4
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Holley actually measures in Lambda then converts to show the end user AFR...
You can run E85 and still use "Gasoline" in the Holley "system" settings..
Thus commanding 14.7 AFR at Idle, 13.3 AFR at TIP IN, and 12.4 AFR at WOT (65-105 kpa 4000-7000rpm)
While running e85 you will need to update a few of your standard LS1 Global tables by mulitply 1.35 across the board.
"Load Sensing" (in Engine Parameters) selected as Speed Density
• Base Fuel Table (lb/hr) x 1.35
• Cranking Fuel (lb/hr) x 1.35
• AE vs. TPS Rate of Change (lb/hr) x 1.35
• AE vs. MAP Rate of Change (lb/hr) x 1.35
You can run E85 and still use "Gasoline" in the Holley "system" settings..
Thus commanding 14.7 AFR at Idle, 13.3 AFR at TIP IN, and 12.4 AFR at WOT (65-105 kpa 4000-7000rpm)
While running e85 you will need to update a few of your standard LS1 Global tables by mulitply 1.35 across the board.
"Load Sensing" (in Engine Parameters) selected as Speed Density
• Base Fuel Table (lb/hr) x 1.35
• Cranking Fuel (lb/hr) x 1.35
• AE vs. TPS Rate of Change (lb/hr) x 1.35
• AE vs. MAP Rate of Change (lb/hr) x 1.35
04-15-2014, 12:09 AM
#5
I really appreciate your reply..
I'm building my car/motor right now and i just got my Holley Hp system so Im stoked to get it on and working.. Ive been talk with a guy who has done a lot with e85 and so I'm try to convert his knowledge into the holley system..
i was told to add 30-40 percent fuel across the entire table and to advance timing 2 degrees to start. my target stoich is 10.2-10.5 which I'm not sure what that means but hopefully when i get the system plugged in ill have a better idea..
so it sound like you have experience with the holley system? do you run e85? how do u like the system..
my setup is in a race car only no street use.. I'm looking forward to setting up my target afr or stoich and letting the system do its thing. i also want to set up too lean and too rich cut offs but like i said I don't know those yet. trying to understand this e85 stuff and take advantage of the extra whp n cheaper cost..
any info you can pass on helps.
I'm building my car/motor right now and i just got my Holley Hp system so Im stoked to get it on and working.. Ive been talk with a guy who has done a lot with e85 and so I'm try to convert his knowledge into the holley system..
i was told to add 30-40 percent fuel across the entire table and to advance timing 2 degrees to start. my target stoich is 10.2-10.5 which I'm not sure what that means but hopefully when i get the system plugged in ill have a better idea..
so it sound like you have experience with the holley system? do you run e85? how do u like the system..
my setup is in a race car only no street use.. I'm looking forward to setting up my target afr or stoich and letting the system do its thing. i also want to set up too lean and too rich cut offs but like i said I don't know those yet. trying to understand this e85 stuff and take advantage of the extra whp n cheaper cost..
any info you can pass on helps.
04-15-2014, 06:42 AM
#6
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I really appreciate your reply..
I'm building my car/motor right now and i just got my Holley Hp system so Im stoked to get it on and working.. Ive been talk with a guy who has done a lot with e85 and so I'm try to convert his knowledge into the holley system..
i was told to add 30-40 percent fuel across the entire table and to advance timing 2 degrees to start. my target stoich is 10.2-10.5 which I'm not sure what that means but hopefully when i get the system plugged in ill have a better idea..
so it sound like you have experience with the holley system? do you run e85? how do u like the system..
my setup is in a race car only no street use.. I'm looking forward to setting up my target afr or stoich and letting the system do its thing. i also want to set up too lean and too rich cut offs but like i said I don't know those yet. trying to understand this e85 stuff and take advantage of the extra whp n cheaper cost..
any info you can pass on helps.
I'm building my car/motor right now and i just got my Holley Hp system so Im stoked to get it on and working.. Ive been talk with a guy who has done a lot with e85 and so I'm try to convert his knowledge into the holley system..
i was told to add 30-40 percent fuel across the entire table and to advance timing 2 degrees to start. my target stoich is 10.2-10.5 which I'm not sure what that means but hopefully when i get the system plugged in ill have a better idea..
so it sound like you have experience with the holley system? do you run e85? how do u like the system..
my setup is in a race car only no street use.. I'm looking forward to setting up my target afr or stoich and letting the system do its thing. i also want to set up too lean and too rich cut offs but like i said I don't know those yet. trying to understand this e85 stuff and take advantage of the extra whp n cheaper cost..
any info you can pass on helps.
251/258 .623 .613 109+3 LSA cam.
Ive had a very decent grasph on tuning with HPTuners on the stock ECU for Meth injection, Boost, Nitrous, as well as H/C setups just the vocabulary and layout of Holley hp is tuff to get used to for me.
I leave my Holley in "Gasoline" as I described early but run E85. I'm just more familiar with Gasoline Stoich values. Again Holley reads in LAMBDA (i.e Gasoline stoich = 14.67 AFR / LAMBDA 1.0, E85 stoich = 9.76 AFR / Lambda of 1.0)
If your running a large cam shaft you will probly end up tuning the car yourself for Idle. As the "Transfer LEARNING to BASE" doesnt work well with large overlaps. Im running about 32* of timing at idle on a TR6 plug gapped to .040.
I still have some tuning to do for WOT but the system does learn VERY QUICKLY during part throttle/cruise situations.
Last edited by 06X6spdGTO; 04-15-2014 at 06:49 AM.
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04-15-2014, 09:16 AM
#8
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Wish we could get a sticky for Dominator/HP EFI Global files, Fuel Maps, and Timing maps to give some of the LSX guys a closer base to get started..
Tim what is your motor combination and how much timing are you pushing at WOT
Tim what is your motor combination and how much timing are you pushing at WOT
04-15-2014, 04:00 PM
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Holley is self learning off Wideband readings... You can adjust how much it is able to "Learn" so you might have a 240/260cam 406ci MPFI base map fuel table to initially fire a G6X3 cam LS2.
With a larger supply of various fuel maps, timing maps, system configurations, etc... One would be to pick a folder that is closer to their setup. Shortening up the learning process.
Tim are you running LS1 valley style knock sensors or LS2 style?
With a larger supply of various fuel maps, timing maps, system configurations, etc... One would be to pick a folder that is closer to their setup. Shortening up the learning process.
Tim are you running LS1 valley style knock sensors or LS2 style?
04-15-2014, 05:07 PM
#13
Holley is self learning off Wideband readings... You can adjust how much it is able to "Learn" so you might have a 240/260cam 406ci MPFI base map fuel table to initially fire a G6X3 cam LS2.
With a larger supply of various fuel maps, timing maps, system configurations, etc... One would be to pick a folder that is closer to their setup. Shortening up the learning process.
With a larger supply of various fuel maps, timing maps, system configurations, etc... One would be to pick a folder that is closer to their setup. Shortening up the learning process.
Like I said, I don't have one yet but I want to learn as much as possible about it before I'm ready for it. Thanks.
04-15-2014, 05:33 PM
#14
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I'm by no means a pro on it, but I've been trying to read up on it as much as I can over the last few months. Brent @ LPE has also given me some guide as needed.
I have yet to put my car on the track with it but did do some logging with cruising and rolling into the throttle from 4000rpm up on the street trying to get a good base line. But do to safety issues I'm unable to continue WOT testing on the street so the rest will need to wait until I get to the track.
Their 2step Rev limiter seems odd, but I'm guessing it is setup that way to maintain a more consistent AFR resulting in a cleaner launch off the Tbrake.
The most difficult part with it was getting the car to maintain and hold idle. And that took maybe 30-45mins tops. I just plugged the base fuel values in myself there
I have yet to put my car on the track with it but did do some logging with cruising and rolling into the throttle from 4000rpm up on the street trying to get a good base line. But do to safety issues I'm unable to continue WOT testing on the street so the rest will need to wait until I get to the track.
Their 2step Rev limiter seems odd, but I'm guessing it is setup that way to maintain a more consistent AFR resulting in a cleaner launch off the Tbrake.
The most difficult part with it was getting the car to maintain and hold idle. And that took maybe 30-45mins tops. I just plugged the base fuel values in myself there
04-23-2014, 01:23 AM
#15
I just fired up my 370 CI 12:1 Motor with holley HP and E85... (its also a (99% Strip setup)
251/258 .623 .613 109+3 LSA cam.
Ive had a very decent grasph on tuning with HPTuners on the stock ECU for Meth injection, Boost, Nitrous, as well as H/C setups just the vocabulary and layout of Holley hp is tuff to get used to for me.
I leave my Holley in "Gasoline" as I described early but run E85. I'm just more familiar with Gasoline Stoich values. Again Holley reads in LAMBDA (i.e Gasoline stoich = 14.67 AFR / LAMBDA 1.0, E85 stoich = 9.76 AFR / Lambda of 1.0)
If your running a large cam shaft you will probly end up tuning the car yourself for Idle. As the "Transfer LEARNING to BASE" doesnt work well with large overlaps. Im running about 32* of timing at idle on a TR6 plug gapped to .040.
I still have some tuning to do for WOT but the system does learn VERY QUICKLY during part throttle/cruise situations.
251/258 .623 .613 109+3 LSA cam.
Ive had a very decent grasph on tuning with HPTuners on the stock ECU for Meth injection, Boost, Nitrous, as well as H/C setups just the vocabulary and layout of Holley hp is tuff to get used to for me.
I leave my Holley in "Gasoline" as I described early but run E85. I'm just more familiar with Gasoline Stoich values. Again Holley reads in LAMBDA (i.e Gasoline stoich = 14.67 AFR / LAMBDA 1.0, E85 stoich = 9.76 AFR / Lambda of 1.0)
If your running a large cam shaft you will probly end up tuning the car yourself for Idle. As the "Transfer LEARNING to BASE" doesnt work well with large overlaps. Im running about 32* of timing at idle on a TR6 plug gapped to .040.
I still have some tuning to do for WOT but the system does learn VERY QUICKLY during part throttle/cruise situations.
also how much can I advance my timing and do i need to change my plugs to get the most from e85?
my set up will be as follows. stock cam. aftermarket headers, 95mm Tb, and CAI.. for this season its all i can afford next year I'm going to do cam, HC pistons, maybe a 150 shot.
but i wanna stay focused on what i have and getting the most out of it as possible.. rev limiter will be set at 6200-6400. since i haven't upgraded the valve springs or done the trunion fix.. however I am running a Canton racing Auccusump.
06-12-2014, 07:38 PM
#17
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So going off this.. after talking with the tuner who has been giving me a lot of my e85 tuning info.. he is saying my stoich is 10.2-10.5 so since your experienced with the holley set up.. if I leave it in gasoline how do i set it up? if you don't mind walking me through it id be very grateful... I haven't sat down to learn it yet since I'm still building on the car.. I'm just trying to spend little as possible time on the computer tuning this thing once its all together so i can just enjoy racing it..
also how much can I advance my timing and do i need to change my plugs to get the most from e85?
my set up will be as follows. stock cam. aftermarket headers, 95mm Tb, and CAI.. for this season its all i can afford next year I'm going to do cam, HC pistons, maybe a 150 shot.
but i wanna stay focused on what i have and getting the most out of it as possible.. rev limiter will be set at 6200-6400. since i haven't upgraded the valve springs or done the trunion fix.. however I am running a Canton racing Auccusump.
also how much can I advance my timing and do i need to change my plugs to get the most from e85?
my set up will be as follows. stock cam. aftermarket headers, 95mm Tb, and CAI.. for this season its all i can afford next year I'm going to do cam, HC pistons, maybe a 150 shot.
but i wanna stay focused on what i have and getting the most out of it as possible.. rev limiter will be set at 6200-6400. since i haven't upgraded the valve springs or done the trunion fix.. however I am running a Canton racing Auccusump.
You simply use Gasoline Stoich, and Power Enrichment Values.. (I.E. 14.6AFR Idle/Part Throttle/Cruise, 12.5 WOT N/A, 11.8AFR WOT Dry Nitrous, 11.5AFR WOT Boosted)
BUT Since you are using E85 with a "Gasoline" fuel header you need to update the tables I listed earlier V.
While running e85 you will need to update a few of your standard LS1 Global tables by mulitply 1.35 across the board.
"Load Sensing" (in Engine Parameters) selected as Speed Density
• Base Fuel Table (lb/hr) x 1.35
• Cranking Fuel (lb/hr) x 1.35
• AE vs. TPS Rate of Change (lb/hr) x 1.35
• AE vs. MAP Rate of Change (lb/hr) x 1.35
If your really looking for your setup to succeed, you need to spend a fair amount of time tuning. Not just the engine, but the suspension. Holley has ALOT of features and Datalogging options youd be leaving on the table to just Plug is some Stoich Numbers and hope all is well... Every BIG name racer you can think of is constantly tuning their setup to be Quicker, More Consistent, etc. As Dynamic Altitude changes so will the way the car will act on the track.
For the engine you will need to spend some time idling and cruising the car to build a decent Fuel Map. Once your fuel map is in line you can decrease the amount of Closed Loop Correction the ECU has, thus LOCKING the tune in.
There is a fair amount of instruction on the Holley website and under the "Help" header of the Holley Software that you should read over to understand your system.
06-12-2014, 09:55 PM
#19
E85 stoich 9.875
E85 max power rich 6.975, 1.40 equiv ratio, 0.7143 lambda
E85 max power lean 8.4687, 1.153 equiv ratio, 0.8673 lambda
