having trouble finding info on what kind of power people are pulling out of a good tuned stock ls1
I used the search feature and searched google as well, can someone direct me to a thread?

I yanked an ls1 out of a 2000 Camaro as my introduction to the LS world. it's going into an offroad car where torque will actually be more beneficial than HP in some regards fwiw. I'm going to have some basic headers basically designed around the chassis, not performance, with a spark arrestor only (no cat). then a cold air intake and that's about it.

my buddy has an hp-tuners kit so we can unlock my ECU and start messing with various tables. are there any tips and tricks you can offer? things to avoid? any simple "must have mods" like an ls6 intake? injectors? not interested in cracking this motor open quite yet, just aiming for a clean, well running and reliable 400chp and I'd be lucky to get half that to the wheels with all the powertrain rob in this build

 

A stock ls1 usual makes about 300hp to the wheels in a 3,500 lb camaro/firebird on average.

If you don't want to open the motor up and do much to it then you are very limited to what you can do.

A ls6 intake in my opinion is not worth the time or money for 5-15hp on a stock ls1 engine by itself, MAYBE on a heads/cam budget build.. But at that point I would look into an aftermarket FAST intake manifold.

You might be able to squeeze 10-15hp out of it if you play with the tune but I'd honestly leave it if it were me. I like the reliability of a stock tune if I can vs playing with the Pcm to squeeze 10 hp out of it.

400hp to the wheels in "our" cars takes a good sized cam.

450 needs CNC aftermarket heads and a cam and some good sized 1 7/8 headers (long tubes), and probably a FAST 102 intake.

I don't know how much you weigh, but hopefully this is enough to get you headed somewhere.

 

my rig weight will be 4000lbs, 4wd, and turning 39" tires so what I actually put to the ground will be kind of irrelevant. it would be a really low dyno number maybe > 45% drivetrain rob. these motors are rated 350 to the wheels in a corvette and it's the same motor so I'm thinking it must be closer to 400chp. once you free up the y pipe exhaust, delete EGR, tell the computer to stop messing with the timing, then advance it you should easily be able free up some reliable ponies. it has to be way down tuned from the factory...

 

*They are rated at 350hp at the crank, not the wheels. No manufacturers rate their cars power at the wheels, only the crank(even its in underrated).
With long tube headers, a decent CAI and a tune 400hp at the crank is reasonable.

 

thank you for the clarification! I was reading that the ls1 is rated at 305-320hp for the Camaro and 350hp for the corvette. the only difference between Camaro/corvette ls1 is the oil pan and the EGR. so I was under the assumption that number was to the wheels, the main difference was the exhaust, intake, weight, and gearbox selection. The automatic robs more power than the t56 which is why some Camaro ls1 are rated at 305 rather than 320. Am I completely mistaken? I think I actually got that info from this forum. I don't know enough about how they rate these motors


I know that hp tuners has some previous settings available for advanced timing that we can try. I'll do some more google work and maybe even throw this thing on the dyno pre tune / post tune

 

Hell yea a ls6 intake full exhaust and tune should put you well around 400 at the crank.

 

sweet! unfortunately long tubes won't be an option unless I go custom since space is such a factor on the sides of the engine and underneath the car. I was actually looking at a set of headers like these

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the exhaust will be routed straight back, then over the top of the transmission into a single 3" pipe then dumped behind the passenger seat

 

Will the buggy be a crawler or a race buggy? If just a crawler I wouldn't worry to much about power bc gears should take care of most of the work.

 

It's going to be geared toward racing. 1:1 for the track 4.3:1 for the trail. I plan to compete locally so a little edge from the stock motor will be advantageous. Getting that edge the the ground will be another challenge. Waiting to hear back on how much the custom torque converter is gonna run me... It's a good introduction to the sport though. If it was a trail rig a 4.8l would've been plenty

 

I'm starting to find a lot of the info I was looking for. I'm seeing a lot of tuning advice that confirms how down tuned, restricted and rich these motors come from the factory. I'm reading that a lot can be gained with a good consistent cold air, free flowing exhaust, and a little bit of leaning out. The factory tune is programmed to pull out 7* of timing with increased IAT's on a warm day or even when the car reaches temperature. Looks like most are pulling about 20hp out of a tune, my buddy will unlock my computer for $100 and start plugging in different options. If I can find a reasonably priced ls6 intake I think the additional 10-15hp on top of the tune would be money very well spent.

Was anyone able to confirm my previous post? About how they rate the HP and why the difference of 25hp+ for the corvette with the same exact motor? Just out of curiosity. Is the difference in the factory tune or the external accessories

http://www.learntotune.com/discussions/topic/tips-for-tuning-ls-engines/
http://youtu.be/VfpmNhCKBis

 

There was an article in super Chevy I think it was, where they engine dyno'd a stock ls1. With no accessories (electronic water pump externally powered) they put out about 400 hp at the crank. I believe it had dyno headers on it. Either way, I firmly believe that with bolt ons and an underdrive pulley you can push past 400 crank horse power.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...aft-dyno-test/

They swapped an ls6 intake on it, 241 heads, and 1 3/4in headers with 2.5in outlets. It made just over 400hp.

 

The LS1 in the F-body has a different camshaft profile than the LS1 in the 350 hp C5 Corvette. They are not the same power and most certainly not rated at the rear wheels.

A custom tune on a basically stock LS1 may gain you 15 rwhp.

 

thanks man! so that confirms that the 305-320 & 350hp numbers are to the wheel ratings. that article makes it so tempting to throw a nasty comp cam in right from the get go. but I'll wait...


I'm definitely considering the dorman 615-900 ls6 intake for $284 unless I can find a true ls6 intake for $300 shipped

 

A stock automatic C5 (rated at 350 hp) will typically put down around 315 rwhp.

 

You were able to pull 15rwp out of your stock ls1? I was reading that the differences in the cam are so marginal it wouldn't show much better results. lots of contradicting information on this forum! I'm seeing a lot of people gain 15 from a stock tune alone and 15 from an ls6 intake. $400 for +/-30hp sounds like a deal to me (on top of the intake and exhaust I already have to build anyway)


From the engine only dyno test.. 418chp without belt drive accessories. my donor motor is from a 2000 so it should already have the 241 heads. Either way, horse power discrepancy from various dyno results doesn't mean anything. I'm mainly looking for tuning information and I found a couple good starting points to do research on. ultimately, we'll have to plug into the computer and start messing with it ourselves


"As expected, our initial runs, after bringing the engine oil and water up to temperature, were in the 400hp range, hitting a maximum of 418 hp and 422 lb-ft of torque. If those numbers seem a bit high to you, keep in mind that they're on an engine dyno and not to the wheels, which would show a loss around 15 percent, bringing our estimated rear-wheel horsepower to 355.3, about perfect for a well appointed bolt-on LS1"


http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...aft-dyno-test/

 

I think that estimate is off , 320-325 is average for full bolt ons.. ls6 engines dyno 350-360 to the wheels. And they are basically a mild head/cam ls1 engine.

Ls6 243 heads and ls6 cam (02-04 LS6 cam- .551/.547 lift, 204/218 duration, 117.5 LS)

It's all splitting hairs though 310,320,330

 

hey guys sorry if im the wrong feed im new here!!
i have 1999 ws6 trans am
i'm looking to gain most HP possible with bolt on's (i wanna do an upper/bottom engine rebuild for now) and at the same time want to get my car ready for a twin turbo setup sometime in the next year that's when i'm going to upgrade my brakes.
MY Machinist BUT ID RATHER DO IT MYSELF U KNOW, BUT FOR ME TO TRUST MY INTUITION I WANNA MAKE SURE I GATHER ALL THE DETAILS I NEED FOR MY PROJECT
here is what i have so far ls6 heads (possibly going to port them and have push rod ports adjusted to 3/8) hot ls6 cam, ported stp oil pump double roller timing chain.
IDK WHETHER TO USE SAME stock ls6 (ROCKER ARMS, VALVES, and lifters) or if i should use stock ls6 intake with my turbo setup
MY QUESTION IS TO BE CLEAR WHAT PARTS YOU GUYS RECOMMEND FOR THE REBUILD AS FAR (SPRING RETAINERS AND STUFF LIKE THAT) AND WHAT PROBLEMS I MIGHT ENCOUNTER.
IM SORRY I KNOW THERE IS A POST SOMEWHERE ON HERE ABOUT THIS IM JUST NEW AND STIL FIGURING OUT HOW TO WORK THIS THING.
I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP

 

I prefer not to squeeze an engine for power by increasing timing and reducing fuel.

Instead, reduce timing, increase fuel, and increase air density per unit area by using forced induction or similar.

 

While you are right there are some minor differences, they make the SAME power, its been proven over and over. And LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-o...ml#post1740888
http://s257.photobucket.com/user/9T8...ower2.jpg.html
ALL LS1s make ~350hp at the crank, even the ones in fbodies.


INCORRECT.
I repeat NO manufacturer rates their cars at the wheels, they are SAE ratings with accessories and stock exhaust. This engine dyno is with no accessories and LT headers, that will easily make a 50hp difference.
AGAIN the LS1's make ~350hp at the crank, no less, but possibly a little more give or take, certainly not 400hp crank (thats LS6 specs).
GM purposely underrated the Fbodies to make the Corvette look that much better on paper.

 

Yes you are mistaken.
The autos do rob more power (~20% to the wheels vs 15% for the T56) but the "305hp" rating was for the base V8 cars while the "320+hp" rating was for the SS and WS6 cars with the exact same engine. They might have made 5 more hp over the base (due to better exhaust) but ALL were in the 350hp crank range, meaning around 300+RWHP.
As I said above GM was underrating them for marketing and this is nothing new, its something they have always done and still do.