80/TA/LT1

iTrader: (2)

Hey guys quick question, i have a turbo 5.3 running at 10 lbs of boost. I just got a cooling mist methanol kit and was wondering if i needed to retune to use it if i was only running water. I have read many threads saying a retune would be needed for washer fluid ( is that true?), but nothing about straight water. Im just using it for lower iat's and insurance against heat / detonation, not a bump in octane or whatever methanol does. Thanks guys have a great weekend

80/TA/LT1

iTrader: (2)

anybody? Bueler bueler ..... haha

stevieturbo

That depends entirely how much you're spraying, when you're spraying and whether you're making any other changes...just doing it for safety, or trying to improve performance.

But spraying water alone whilst yes it will add safety....will often also lose power if you make no other changes.

And when using water only, you will be using very small amounts compared to methanol so the application of the water is important.

gametech

iTrader: (1)

Quoting this post just for emphasis. Unless you have extremely high IATs, pure water will likely cause a loss in power. Also, while pure methanol can basically be fire-hosed in, pure water takes tiny amounts to avoid bogging the motor. Unless you plan on taking advantage of the increased timing afforded by injecting pure water (which also comes with risk), I wouldn't bother.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

the advantage of water injection is the drop in EGT (combustion temp -> EGT) for safety when using pump (poor) fuel. Imagine you had a dial with a "max egt setting" on it. Depending where you install the probe, you will desire some max egt M. Lets say M is 1200*F and the probe is installed in the downpipe. Watch the EGT and control it by adding water until it stays reasonable.

Dian

water injection starts showing positive effects when you reach 20% of fuel (by volume). you can then advance timing on a detonation limited engine or increase boost. up to 1:1 water fuel ratios have been used. less then that it will just cool the charge a little. you will need around 0.02g/min/bhp/°k of water. its not uncommon to loose power.

JoeNova

I would just use washer fluid..

80/TA/LT1

iTrader: (2)

Ok thx guys, I was just trying to avoid a re tune by using water. I see now that's not an option. I'll just install the kit and wait til next year to use it on my new setup which will need a tune anyways. Thx again for the info

Old Geezer

iTrader: (3)

Data logs??

stevieturbo

1:1 fuel:water...

good luck with that!

Dian

look it up. google WWII waterinjection or something.

stevieturbo

Last time I checked, this isnt a WWII Spitfire forum..

And you can be 100% sure they were not using straight water, for very obvious reasons.

Dian

why not learn from the research that has been done at that time? and they were using pure water, go and find the two relevant papers, if your interested.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

I believe some of the water injection research was also for cruise economy, I think those 50% (1:1) water injection was for a lean cruise situation. I can't be 100% sure its been a while, but what I took away from that paper was there is an economy benefit to reducing fueling and injecting water in place of it since water plays a role in combustion.

gametech

iTrader: (1)

I believe the fact that water evaporates much more easily at the cruising altitude of a fighter jet than the cruising altitude of a racecar may be a significant factor in choosing your mixture percentages.

JoeNova

The 1:1 water/fuel ratio was on the turbine engines, not the piston engines. Water would be sprayed just after the compressor blades on the turbine, and the rapidly expanding water -> steam reaction would cause much more gas to discharge than was being brought in, causing a large bump in thrust.

stevieturbo

Or the fact that water will freeze at high altitude where it is ******* freezing rendering such systems useless.

And that's where methanol appeared.

Dian

it was on both. currently bmw is finding it can run its engines at 1 lambda at wot with a 35% by weight mixture. its actually more or less the percentage of fuel that would be used to richen it up (fi).