kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

i have to do everything myself for the first time if it is easy enough, free. oem plug wires are free. if I can see this engine run in a native environment properly it would be some diagnostic value. Instead of just slapping on every performance part at once and assuming its going to work perfect. I do not have a set of oem plugs I would use, this budget is $0 for extraneous, unnecessary details, like oem plugs just to observe the engine. So the only other place to get this data is the web.

Putting it here in diagnostic format helps everyone see what kind of diagnostic procedure is involved. Actually owning and driving the original truck, then taking the engine out, would be worth even more. It is getting as close to that for each engine you own. If you had 9999 engines then it is worthless. if you have 1 engine then it is priceless.

so far, nobody has reported trying oem plug wires and tr6 plugs @ 0.040" on heatsink coilpacks results... still searching if free

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

I've made
850rwhp on a LS2, T56, stock wires, stock coils, BR7's gapped at .030 at 18 psi
830rwhp on a LS3, 4L80E, stock wires, stock coils BR7's gapped at .030 at 23 psi
600rwhp on a LS6, T56, stock wires, stock coils, TR6's gapped at .045 on a 150 shot
555rwhp on a LS1, T56, stock wires, stock coils, TR6 gapped at .035 on 12 psi
530rwhp on a LS1, 4L60E, stock wires, stock coils, BR7's gapped at .030 on 13psi


stock coils, stock wires aren't your problem.

You got spark blow out?
Start tightening up your gap.
Yes, it is REALLY that simple.

There are way more talented people doing way cooler **** than I've done on stock ****.

G Atsma

Nawww.... he's gotta experiment some more.... science, you know??

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

exactly.

talk just to hear yourself talk....or type just to see yourself type...

six of one...

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info. I was hearing a misfire around maybe 4.0 horsepower output, using high mileage OEM Plug wires and rusty old coilpacks. It isn't in the budget to replace everything all at once with high quality parts, I just wanted to make sure somebody else has tried TR6 with oem plug wires is all, because this is not the native plug and I've never seen an LS engine before. I wouldn't call it an experiment so much as a necessary step in learning curve. Did you guys all start out with a complete set of aftermarket parts for your first LS engine? I don't think it is unreasonable to be asking these questions as a first timer. Moving the gap down to fix a misfire when output is only around 4 horsepower is not the solution. Clearly, the wires have 100k and the coilpacks being old and rusty is more likely. "not so simple" to find out which coilpacks on which cylinders are weakest, is it?

JoeNova

You are probably the 100,000th person to run a stock style plug gapped at .045", which is why everyone here is shaking their heads and facepalming. You might as well ask if anyone has ever ran a BR7 plug in an LS engine and then claim that it doesn't work.

Also, your concept of VE is way off. The VE in these is a calculated %. Its not a true %. You can EASILY change the Injector Flow Rate, engine displacement, IAT/CLT scaling, and end up with 50 VE at 30 PSI, or 250 VE at idle.

If you're running an 80 in your VE table at 550 RPM, then you're likely running pig rich and its misfiring because of it, causing all of your problems as described.

If you're worried a plug wire is the problem, remove all 8 of them, and use a multimeter to measure the resistance. If one is out of wack, replace it.


Common sense stuff..........

G Atsma

One would think..... with SOME people, it ain't all that common...

MY_2K_Z

iTrader: (1)

Wtf are you talking about? 4hp? So you mean when it's running on 1cyl at idle. You need to use normal terms of reference like at a given rpm or something not at 4hp lol my engine makes more than that at idle im sure.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Unless it's a really low mileage car the wires get replaced. The customer has the option to go with OE type wires or MSD.

Plugs always get replaced. 95% of the time it's Br7's gapped .028-.030. Why? Because I know it works. Because when the drum is turning, it costs money, it's costing someone money.

If you are using 100k mile plug wires on a boosted application you are an idiot. I'm sorry but you are.

At low boost TR6's will work but I prefer a non projected plug. If the tune is good, you can run a colder plug and tighter gap and have no problem.

For example we did a 900+hp LS3 on E85 w/ BR7's gapped at .028 on 23psi what will start in the dead of winter first hit.

I've seen a lot of your other posts about tuning and honestly I believe you are trolling.

Good luck on you adventure. This is the last time you'll see me in this thread....I've already spent way too much time here.

The guys that know more than me didn't even bother to post...and I don't blame them.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Im just taking my time here. Thanks for the post.

I estimate VE myself based on KPA and cam timing, I know with an OEM cam that I should be around 80% VE if I am nearing 100KPA around 1000rpm. At exact in gear idle it might be around 55kpa, I forget, so figure 40-50% VE I suppose. I don't use the computer to tell me. Anything after 55kpa though, as rpm rises, VE increases incrementally so I just called it a flat 80% to figure 60-80% across the board is misfire territory for the crappy parts on the engine atm.

You don't have to worry about me making any assumptions based on what the computer 'says'. I know all too well that never mean what they say.

What you've all got to understand is this is my first V8 LS engine. So I am going to have all these stupid face palm questions. I enjoy it. I enjoy not knowing and having people face palm. Cant explain why, just do. And whats really cool is when I discover something because I went through all the rigors of re-examining some old well known concept. And then I can improve on it maybe. Everything is worth looking at, at least once, even the most mundane function.

G Atsma

If you KNOW most of us have all been somewhere you have just discovered, what makes you think we all need to share it? Enjoy your discoveries yourself, and save this forum for actual questions and problems that need solving, NOT something 1000 times rehashed! This is not about indulging yourself at others expense. This ain't reality TV.

JoeNova

Yeah, you're pretty much on your own. Nobody wants to help someone who says "I ignored everything from the computer and did my own stuff".

Your math is wacked, as is your reasoning.

Have fun. Don't expect any real help.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

I'm not getting help. I am giving it. Maybe that is why everyone is confused. This is a research article researching the swap-native environment from worst to best case scenario on easy parts.

No math was done. just common sense. I can't hit 100% VE on a turbo engine with an open gate at 500-1000rpm at any throttle position unless I were to load it against a brake. And it was higher than 50%VE I can also tell you that for sure. Confidence interval of 55 to 80% VE in my situation is better than 90%.

Old Geezer

iTrader: (3)

You guys continue to feed this clown's need for confrontation.
How about we all put him on ignore..Maybe, he'll go away.

G Atsma

You are helping nobody here. You are "experimenting" with known quantities and known results, (known to us but not you, apparently), so before posting here EVER again, DO RESEARCH! Resources abound on what you are doing.
Besides all this, WHO is idiot enough to spend bucks on a turbo setup, only to use ancient ignition wires and coils??? Besides you, I mean. Too many stupid "what-ifs" for strictly your own amusement, not ours. Play in your own sandbox without slinging any our way.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

This is how the internet forums work:

Stuff gets posted
technical data gets salvaged, if any, the rest is deleted
whats left is tech for future searching. I always leave good info behind, even though your **** is gone.

You cannot comprehend what I am trying to achieve here, so don't try. You think I am trying to save $12 on a set of plug wires? Really? I put an LS turbo 4l80e together and I can't spend $12 on wires is what you are suggesting. Get a clue, mad brah

G Atsma

Here's how it REALLY works:

RELEVANT stuff gets posted
USEFUL technical data gets salvaged. NOTHING here got deleted. Though a lot here should.
There might be RELEVANT tech for searching. No good info was left in this thread.

Nobody is trying to figure what you are doing. What we are suggesting here is you just wasted lot of time here. $12 wires? SMH....

I'm done

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

At the end I send a list to the mods for which posts to remove. pretty easy guy.

Today I pulled the plugs for inspection for the first time. No sign of any specific plug problem. However I did note that the two front cylinders/plugs seemed a bit darker than the rest. Running richer? Running colder? Getting a laser pyrometer to collect some temp data.

Full list of settings/parts and tune file has been linked above elsewhere

other notes:
I am using the rear facing coolant temp sensor head-port for the ECU. It holds around 188*F. I wonder what the front, normal cyl-head temp sensor would read? I might check it depending what I see in the exhaust tube temps and front cyl head temps with the laser.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

You decide to take an LS engine and put it into something, anything. You buy a complete truck to take everything from. The truck arrives on a flat-bed from some place, and lands on your doorstep, ready to take apart.

Question 1:
Do you A or B?
A: Take everything out of the truck immediately and begin the long process of preparing it and installing all your parts

or

B: Drive the truck first, for a couple days/weeks/months/years, to make sure it runs properly. Compression test it. Check the oil. Look at everything until satisfied with it. THEN take it all apart.


I chose B. My truck came with OEM plug wires. I want to see how it behaves. Learn everything I can first. Oh, but its a terrible idea! yeah

JoeNova

I don't even know why I humor you anymore. You've spent a lot of time here trying to explain things that are common place on import forums full of 16-18 year olds trying to state their 'theories'.

Your claims like 80% VE at 550 RPM are insane. You can't achieve an 80% volumetric efficiency or cylinder fill at idle unless your engine isn't pulling any vacuum. Your entire opening sentence is completely bogus.

Whatever this is, is absolutely hilarious. You sound like the old woman I work with that tries to use complicated terms and pretend formulas to sound smart, even though she's probably borderline in need of assisted living.
You contradict yourself constantly, saying you don't want to swap plug wires around because you don't want to go that slow, but you'll do something ridiculous instead:

Every bit of that sounds like Honda-Tech high school crap. Don't say you're too impatient to try swapping plug wires and then propose you go all scientific method with heat shields, ducting, and fans. If your coils don't work, its not because they are hot, its because either they don't work, or your 'way too often self-touted tuning skills' are REALLY BAD.

Want a .055 plug gap on a turbo engine? IGN-1A coils. Its been done a LOT. You're not reinventing the wheel, you're trying to replace the rubber tire with cinder blocks and then trying to explain why it would work.

You're the LS1Tech village idiot.