Wideband in stock O2 location
11-29-2017, 09:47 PM
#21
TECH Senior Member
The high quality mfrs.' include instructions to mount wherever needed. The CHEEEEP stuff mfrs.(AEM/Innovate) warn not to put their junk sensors too close lest you fry them.
11-30-2017, 08:16 AM
#22
Launching!
HERE IS THE SPEC SHEET FOR THE LAMBDA CAN MODULE. Notice how their only requirement is that the sensor only be subject to 850*C continuous temperature. It's ok to briefly exceed that, but continuous means 10min+ to us here in the OEM world. That's something that racers will pretty much never do. Incidentally, that LambdaCAN module uses the same exact sensor as my AFM1500, AFM1000, and LambdaPRO. It is designed to operate with the sensor UPSTREAM of a turbo or restrictive catalyst and still return a reliable, pressure compensated, temperature compensated reading. That's what you get for the extra money.
Now do I recommend these really expensive tools for the DIY guys? NO. That's why there are lower cost units (still made by ECM) sold by Dynocom and Ballenger, that still have a reliable signal at low backpressure. The only thing you need to do is avoid leaks and install them somewhere that the backpressure is reasonable (like downstream of the turbo). They work just fine either 4" or 40" from the turbine, just with slightly different transport times.
I know lots of people shop on price, but please don't confuse number of units sold with "who makes the best wideband".
11-30-2017, 08:29 AM
#23
I think you have mistaken what qualifies as a "high quality manufacturer". ECM is the standard of the industry for OEM work. Most aftermarket stuff is just kids' toys by comparison. Their latest wideband controller is certainly more expensive than an AEM/Innovate, but the capabilities are far superior.
HERE IS THE SPEC SHEET FOR THE LAMBDA CAN MODULE. Notice how their only requirement is that the sensor only be subject to 850*C continuous temperature. It's ok to briefly exceed that, but continuous means 10min+ to us here in the OEM world. That's something that racers will pretty much never do. Incidentally, that LambdaCAN module uses the same exact sensor as my AFM1500, AFM1000, and LambdaPRO. It is designed to operate with the sensor UPSTREAM of a turbo or restrictive catalyst and still return a reliable, pressure compensated, temperature compensated reading. That's what you get for the extra money.
Now do I recommend these really expensive tools for the DIY guys? NO. That's why there are lower cost units (still made by ECM) sold by Dynocom and Ballenger, that still have a reliable signal at low backpressure. The only thing you need to do is avoid leaks and install them somewhere that the backpressure is reasonable (like downstream of the turbo). They work just fine either 4" or 40" from the turbine, just with slightly different transport times.
I know lots of people shop on price, but please don't confuse number of units sold with "who makes the best wideband".
HERE IS THE SPEC SHEET FOR THE LAMBDA CAN MODULE. Notice how their only requirement is that the sensor only be subject to 850*C continuous temperature. It's ok to briefly exceed that, but continuous means 10min+ to us here in the OEM world. That's something that racers will pretty much never do. Incidentally, that LambdaCAN module uses the same exact sensor as my AFM1500, AFM1000, and LambdaPRO. It is designed to operate with the sensor UPSTREAM of a turbo or restrictive catalyst and still return a reliable, pressure compensated, temperature compensated reading. That's what you get for the extra money.
Now do I recommend these really expensive tools for the DIY guys? NO. That's why there are lower cost units (still made by ECM) sold by Dynocom and Ballenger, that still have a reliable signal at low backpressure. The only thing you need to do is avoid leaks and install them somewhere that the backpressure is reasonable (like downstream of the turbo). They work just fine either 4" or 40" from the turbine, just with slightly different transport times.
I know lots of people shop on price, but please don't confuse number of units sold with "who makes the best wideband".
Fact: If you buy a typical $150 wideband unit from anywhere, you will need to read the instruction manual and probably place it away from high temp sources.
Assumption: If a typical person modifying a car sees the "same" car part for $150 and $500, they usually buy the $150 unit if it does the same things more or less.
Lessons: read the manual, expect people to be cheap in general
Also, AEM produces their own stand-alone unit. So if they are offering a coincidental wideband unit to go with it, even if its cheap, that doesn't sound bad. Somebody had to engineer it, and they sell thousands of them without issue so... yeah I think its fairly high quality manufacturer, AEM IMO. Just an opinion. I've had LC1 Innovative and similar and nothing but trouble over the years, whereas an AEM gauge on the pillar seems to last forever in a number of cars. So AEM definitely stands out to me as a reliable piece of equipment. Furthermore, we go to the dynometer's wideband when we want a second opinion.
11-30-2017, 08:40 AM
#24
Greg, don't bother. He knows just enough to be dangerous.
KT....you do realize you're arguing with someone who tunes for the OEMs and literally has written multiple books on tuning that include discussions on widebands, right? Just STFU and listen sometimes.
KT....you do realize you're arguing with someone who tunes for the OEMs and literally has written multiple books on tuning that include discussions on widebands, right? Just STFU and listen sometimes.
11-30-2017, 08:49 AM
#25
What argument? show me one place there is an argument. Quote something, anything I said that you can argue with. LOL Thats right, go check. All I said was "read the instruction manual". You can't argue with that, its why I chose to say it 
It stands: Read the manual no matter what you buy. If you screw up that part, nobody posting on LS tech can save you
go ahead, post all you want. But know that it isn't an argument. it is a supplement. Lets see how many supplements we can get. Oh and, try not to get mad. again.
It stands: Read the manual no matter what you buy. If you screw up that part, nobody posting on LS tech can save you
go ahead, post all you want. But know that it isn't an argument. it is a supplement. Lets see how many supplements we can get. Oh and, try not to get mad. again.
11-30-2017, 09:44 AM
#26
What argument? show me one place there is an argument. Quote something, anything I said that you can argue with. LOL Thats right, go check. All I said was "read the instruction manual". You can't argue with that, its why I chose to say it
It stands: Read the manual no matter what you buy. If you screw up that part, nobody posting on LS tech can save you
go ahead, post all you want. But know that it isn't an argument. it is a supplement. Lets see how many supplements we can get. Oh and, try not to get mad. again.
It stands: Read the manual no matter what you buy. If you screw up that part, nobody posting on LS tech can save you
go ahead, post all you want. But know that it isn't an argument. it is a supplement. Lets see how many supplements we can get. Oh and, try not to get mad. again.
You're the ONLY one in here who has blown something up by doing this....so obviously that speaks to your tuning ability. I do this on EVERY SINGLE CAR i've tuned that doesn't have a dedicated wideband bung and have ZERO engine failures....."take that for data." Stupid Grizzles firing David Fizdale.
11-30-2017, 09:55 AM
#27
I can see where kingtalon is saying about reading the manual is necessary for most first time beginners but those who have had experience afterwards already 'know' the ideal placement of the sensor and the angle to which is best suited. both the uego/aem and ngk afx powerdex/Ballenger afx advises on how far away to place the sensor as well as angle of the sensor itself.
regardless, any tool or anything in general, be it tv or computer or even a table there are instructions included.
regardless, any tool or anything in general, be it tv or computer or even a table there are instructions included.
11-30-2017, 10:03 AM
#28
I can see where kingtalon is saying about reading the manual is necessary for most first time beginners but those who have had experience afterwards already 'know' the ideal placement of the sensor and the angle to which is best suited. both the uego/aem and ngk afx powerdex/Ballenger afx advises on how far away to place the sensor as well as angle of the sensor itself.
regardless, any tool or anything in general, be it tv or computer or even a table there are instructions included.
regardless, any tool or anything in general, be it tv or computer or even a table there are instructions included.
11-30-2017, 10:07 AM
#29
FormerVendor
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NTK UEGO Data Sheet Hi Olx, good tech, I agree with ECM's quality AND Horiba's quality. (1st in Class)
My UEGO work began at the Horiba MFC manufacturing plant about two miles from my shop in the 1980's.
I have a MFC that uses the UEGO for gas flow measurement AND content. (Unit 1990's)
NOW for ALL, the "KING" report is "OFF the CUFF" as he is NOT ALLOWED to VIEW the internal NTK UEGO sensor specifications.
Those "rights" are for dealers, as myself, who ARE allowed to buy from Wixom AND have signed the AGREEMENT.
THUS Spider, King knows little about the UEGO !
I ALSO believe he does not know how to operate the Nernst Cell !
Lance
My UEGO work began at the Horiba MFC manufacturing plant about two miles from my shop in the 1980's.
I have a MFC that uses the UEGO for gas flow measurement AND content. (Unit 1990's)
NOW for ALL, the "KING" report is "OFF the CUFF" as he is NOT ALLOWED to VIEW the internal NTK UEGO sensor specifications.
Those "rights" are for dealers, as myself, who ARE allowed to buy from Wixom AND have signed the AGREEMENT.
THUS Spider, King knows little about the UEGO !
I ALSO believe he does not know how to operate the Nernst Cell !
Lance
11-30-2017, 10:19 AM
#30
Hi Olx, good tech, I agree with ECM's quality AND Horiba's quality. (1st in Class)
My UEGO work began at the Horiba MFC manufacturing plant about two miles from my shop in the 1980's.
I have a MFC that uses the UEGO for gas flow measurement AND content. (Unit 1990's)
NOW for ALL, the "KING" report is "OFF the CUFF" as he is NOT ALLOWED to VIEW the internal NTK UEGO sensor specifications.
Those "rights" are for dealers, as myself, who ARE allowed to buy from Wixom AND have signed the AGREEMENT.
THUS Spider, King knows little about the UEGO !
I ALSO believe he does not know how to operate the Nernst Cell !
Lance
My UEGO work began at the Horiba MFC manufacturing plant about two miles from my shop in the 1980's.
I have a MFC that uses the UEGO for gas flow measurement AND content. (Unit 1990's)
NOW for ALL, the "KING" report is "OFF the CUFF" as he is NOT ALLOWED to VIEW the internal NTK UEGO sensor specifications.
Those "rights" are for dealers, as myself, who ARE allowed to buy from Wixom AND have signed the AGREEMENT.
THUS Spider, King knows little about the UEGO !
I ALSO believe he does not know how to operate the Nernst Cell !
Lance
11-30-2017, 11:36 AM
#31
TECH Senior Member
Kingtalon just can't face the fact that he, the perfectionist, got hosed on his sensor buy...
11-30-2017, 01:39 PM
#33
TECH Senior Member
They do. What do you think we have been discussing?
Edit- I thought he was referring to the bung right after the header/manifold... DOH!
Edit- I thought he was referring to the bung right after the header/manifold... DOH!
Last edited by G Atsma; 12-01-2017 at 12:31 AM.
11-30-2017, 02:36 PM
#34
Launching!
Installing a sensor further downstream has its own set of compromises/issues. With a catalyst in there, your signal is damped by catalyst O2 storage. Without a catalyst, it is delayed by a longer transport time. But what do I know... 
11-30-2017, 11:57 PM
#36
TECH Apprentice
Hi All, when a EGO/UEGO is fitted, there is a hole in the side of the sensor for air reference.
DO NOT "wrap" that area with a temperature barrier material.
The MOST FUNNY thing I have read is about sensor drift with temperature increase.
When the sensor temperature is increased, the "read" will show a HIGHER AFR CAUSING the EMS to provide MORE fuel. (1650+ EGT)
Lance
DO NOT "wrap" that area with a temperature barrier material.
The MOST FUNNY thing I have read is about sensor drift with temperature increase.
When the sensor temperature is increased, the "read" will show a HIGHER AFR CAUSING the EMS to provide MORE fuel. (1650+ EGT)
Lance
as to the precision of measurement, the moisture of air has an influence of up to 4%. not sure if this gets compensated for anywhere. pressure doesnt, right? thats why tuners will stick the probe in the tailpipe most of the time, at least over here, even when using a motec box.
12-06-2017, 07:37 AM
#38
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Wow this thread has been everything I could have asked for and more lmao. Got a little off topic, but still pretty great. Anyway long story short I just had another bung welded in for the WB
12-06-2017, 11:41 AM
#39
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RA with UEGO Calibration Effects Hi Dain, NO DATA, as stated in my post, the "over-read" 1650+ is NOT recommended by NTK due to improper sensor operation.
THE RA effects Lambda, sure, thus NO comp required.
THE gas pressure does effect the calibration which is noted in the resistor. (Sea Level)
YES, the Pipe Probe ???
The shop air is pulsed into the exhaust pipe causing an IMPROPER READ at Throttled conditions.
Lance
THE RA effects Lambda, sure, thus NO comp required.
THE gas pressure does effect the calibration which is noted in the resistor. (Sea Level)
YES, the Pipe Probe ???
The shop air is pulsed into the exhaust pipe causing an IMPROPER READ at Throttled conditions.
Lance