scales4576

May be a simple question but has anybody pulled a stock O2 and put a wideband in it's place just for WOT and open-loop tuning? Obviously the NB needs to be in there for closed-loop but for open-loop seems like there would be no issue replacing one of the NB with the WB. Just trying to avoid welding in another bung as clearance before the cats is limited

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Not a good idea, too hot

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

Are you using the stock manifolds or headers? It may be too close for the stock manifolds but the tuning books I've read indicate that so long as the sensor is 12-48" from the head port or turbine, and before any cat's, you should be fine.

scales4576

They are long tubes. Just eye balling the bungs look to be about 18-20" from the flange/head

brandon6.0

iTrader: (32)

Yes will work fine.

scales4576

Cool. Thanks all!

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Depends how much power you are making (or Joules/second to put it another way). If a lot of heat is being thrown into the exhaust from a serious performance engine you could not get away with 12" or 18" from the head. More like 36-48" perhaps.

I think what is saying is, for your low power application it will work fine. oO

turbolx

A good quality wideband should be just fine when installed in the standard upstream O2 sensor location. Just disconnect the factory O2 sensor and force the car into open loop while tuning with the wideband only. When you're done, return the calibration to closed loop and reinstall the narrowband sensor. DONE.

This way, you will not chase your tail waiting for narrowband O2 corrections to calm down and learn a stable %. Just take a decent average of your steady state error from the wideband and fix the MAF/VE tables accordingly. The wideband should be far more trustworthy than a questionably aged narrowband sensor.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Oh hai, whats that? a wideband is better than the narrowband and we don't need the narrowband anymore? Huh thats crazy!

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Works fine, tuners been doing it since the dawn of time.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

I've seen and had an engine meltdown because of wideband location. So don't tell me it works fine as if nothing bad ever happens because of wideband location. The instructions that come with the damn thing even say to keep it in a cool location, mount it away from the high exhaust temps. pls read the instructions.

turbolx

Then you had a low quality wideband CONTROLLER. This is what makes the difference between the cheap units and good ones. I exclusively use wideband controllers made by ECM (LambdaPRO, AFM1500, AFM1000, NGK AFX, Dynocom AFM2, Ballenger AFR500) but with actual sensors from both NGK and Bosch. In 18 years of professional calibration work at both OEM and performance jobs, I have NEVER had a failure due to sensor location. Good wideband controllers do a better job of estimating and controlling tip temperature on the sensor and varying the heater element duty cycle to keep it both alive and accurate. Unfortunately, the bargain units' circuitry lags behind here and most consumers aren't aware of why they have the failures.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

You sir are the definition of retarded. Listen carefully, it is common practice for tuners to use existing bungs for wideband tuning. Tuners who tune cars regularly!!! If they aren't reporting issues, then its not an issue. You had one problem and now report it as gospel.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi All, when a EGO/UEGO is fitted, there is a hole in the side of the sensor for air reference.

DO NOT "wrap" that area with a temperature barrier material.

The MOST FUNNY thing I have read is about sensor drift with temperature increase.

When the sensor temperature is increased, the "read" will show a HIGHER AFR CAUSING the EMS to provide MORE fuel. (1650+ EGT)

Lance

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

The number is around 1500-1800*F. Most aftermarket, consumer level wideband sensors can only tolerate that temp range maximum. Thats why the Instruction Manual says to place the sensor a nice big distance from the turbine. You are saying now that the Instruction manual is wrong? And you can put it wherever you want? You go ahead do that to urs, Don't make me laugh, sir.

G Atsma

You ignored something; you have a CHEAP, or LOW QUALITY sensor. Yes the instructions say what they say, because they are for a CHEAP sensor! Instructions for GOOD sensors don't say that.
Interesting that your attitude here is, "EVERYONE on this forum is wrong except ME! Since "I" bought this sensor, it must be good, so everyone else around here is just full of --it!"
The truth is, NOBODY else here has trouble with their sensors even though they mount them where YOU and YOUR instructions say not to. One CAN mount a GOOD QUALITY sensor wherever they want, because they are made to do just that.
If someone just wrote all the above to me, I would think, "He must think I'm pretty dense." Do you get that feeling? GOOD!

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Please tell me the odds the op is going to spend $500+ on a wideband? Tell me he isn't going to buy the same AEM or Innovative everybody else buys. 99% of consumer level product AEM & Innovative are what people buy, or did I miss something? Ur damn right I use an Cheap AEM sensor. And the instructions say to put that sensor a nice distance from the high temperature exhaust. /thread

G Atsma

You get what you pay for.....

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Scales, I have a report about bench testing in NC. (Cup Engine Testing)
I am NOT a "King" just a person who sells UEGO/EGO sensors and provides "tech" for the users who purchase this type of sensor.
A typical NASCAR engine test bench will have an Exhaust System equipped with eight 18mm x 1.5 bungs in each port close to the cylinder head.
This is where they place the LSU 4.2 UEGO sensor, eight of them for a measurement of EACH cylinders Lambda.
My UEGO Amplifier has a CAN 2.0B channel and comes with a GUI provided for all eight read on one screen.

The best UEGO is NTK with 2X the life of a LSU 4.2
The newer LSU 4.9 is a lower cost sensor, less life AND a faster read.
The China sensors "die" often at first use, VERY short life.

The "consumer" report ???

My customer is WorldPac, the largest seller of Bosche/NTK UEGO sensors.
TRUST me when I state that AEM/Innovate sales are <1% of LSU sales.
I buy from NGK in Wixom.

Lance, BTW Hitler ordered the Lambda sensor to be created.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

How about instead, when you buy something from a high quality manufacturer, you should read and follow the simple instructions.