HP Tuners Wideband Problems
01-30-2018, 05:39 PM
#1
HP Tuners Wideband Problems I have HP Tuners Pro and recently bought an NGK NTK Wide Band.
I was able to set up the channel, and it is seeing a signal from the sensor. I can datalog a "number" for AFR in HP Tuners. However, that number DOES NOT follow what is being displayed on the display that came with the wide band. I trust the display for the wide band. I DO NOT trust the # being displayed in HP Tuners.
At lower RPM's the displayed numbers will match. As soon as the RPM's come up, the HP Tuners # stays in the 14.5-14.9 range. Further, if there is a large swing in AFR, the display will accurately show the swing, but the # in HP Tuners will stay artificially low.
Anybody have any ideas on what I can do to get the display #'s to match the # being displayed in HP Tuners? Obviously I can't tune my truck unless, and until I can get the HP reported # to be accurate.
Anybody have any ideas?
I was able to set up the channel, and it is seeing a signal from the sensor. I can datalog a "number" for AFR in HP Tuners. However, that number DOES NOT follow what is being displayed on the display that came with the wide band. I trust the display for the wide band. I DO NOT trust the # being displayed in HP Tuners.
At lower RPM's the displayed numbers will match. As soon as the RPM's come up, the HP Tuners # stays in the 14.5-14.9 range. Further, if there is a large swing in AFR, the display will accurately show the swing, but the # in HP Tuners will stay artificially low.
Anybody have any ideas on what I can do to get the display #'s to match the # being displayed in HP Tuners? Obviously I can't tune my truck unless, and until I can get the HP reported # to be accurate.
Anybody have any ideas?
01-30-2018, 06:20 PM
#3
I used The Tuning School calculator to get the offset values and put them in. Problem still persists-variance between display and HP Tuners reported AFR.
I had all 3 grounds-Sensor Ground, Display Ground, and PIN/Terminal #5 on HP Tuners interface all tied together and then grounded through a cigarette lighter plug. Problem still persists-variance between display and HP Tuners reported AFR.
I then separated the grounds and left the display ground attached to the cigarette lighter plug (-), and then tied the SENSOR GROUND coming out of the display directly to PIN/TERMINAL #5 on the HP Tuners interface. Problem still persists-variance between display and HP Tuners reported AFR.
Thank you for responding. I really appreciate it. I've tried the simple stuff and still can't seem to make the two displayed #'s match anywhere other than at low rpm/idle.
I had all 3 grounds-Sensor Ground, Display Ground, and PIN/Terminal #5 on HP Tuners interface all tied together and then grounded through a cigarette lighter plug. Problem still persists-variance between display and HP Tuners reported AFR.
I then separated the grounds and left the display ground attached to the cigarette lighter plug (-), and then tied the SENSOR GROUND coming out of the display directly to PIN/TERMINAL #5 on the HP Tuners interface. Problem still persists-variance between display and HP Tuners reported AFR.
Thank you for responding. I really appreciate it. I've tried the simple stuff and still can't seem to make the two displayed #'s match anywhere other than at low rpm/idle.
01-30-2018, 09:26 PM
#4
what controller do you have? the older ngk afx or the newer afrm gen2?
if the latter which AFR spread do you have it set to 9 to 20 or 9 to 16? make sure that matches the spread in HPT. you'll have to unify it across channels, gauges, etc..
iirc there was a drop down for pretty much every current respected WB controller
IME the ground offset problem only happens with innovate stuff. they use a funky *** floating ground.
if the latter which AFR spread do you have it set to 9 to 20 or 9 to 16? make sure that matches the spread in HPT. you'll have to unify it across channels, gauges, etc..
iirc there was a drop down for pretty much every current respected WB controller
IME the ground offset problem only happens with innovate stuff. they use a funky *** floating ground.
01-31-2018, 08:41 AM
#5
Restricted User
Make sure you use that exact wideband in the drop down in HPT. A lot of companies use widebands that are non-linear, so the voltage to AFR scale is on a curve. If you don't select the wideband in HPT that is configured for that curve, then they won't match.
01-31-2018, 04:25 PM
#6
Thanks guys for the ideas.
I took the wire that was tying PIN/Terminal 5 on my HPT interface to the SIGNAL GROUND in the harness for the W/B and ran them both directly to the negative cable on the battery. Problem persists. Reported AFR in HPT will match the display at low RPM, or anytime when the display is between 13-14.9. HPT WILL NOT DISPLAY anything outside of those numbers-either higher or lower.
I am using the correct Drop down choice as it also reflects the same numbers that are coming up in the Tuning School Calculator.
I've removed the wide band and just given up.
I'm beginning to think there is a problem with HP Tuners Software itself. I have a brand new lap top that I purchased just for HP Tuners. I can use that lap top to surf the web, or run other programs and the battery lasts at least 2 hours, or more before telling me that the battery is down to 25%. Just a little while ago I took my truck for a drive with the intent to do some datalogging. The only thing running was the HPT Scanner. It KILLED my laptop in under 20 minutes. From a full battery to DEAD in under 20 minutes. I was sitting at a red light and looked over to see the "battery low" warning on the screen. As I reached for it to clear it, the laptop shut off. Also if I have anything relating to HP Tuners-scanner or editor-open and I close my laptop, without closing HPT first, when I go to reopen it I have the blue screen of death and it requires a complete reboot. HPT is the ONLY program that does this. I can close and open with a web browser open-no problem. Excel-no problem. Microsoft Office-No problem. Only HPT gets me the blue screen of death every time.
So, not only does my W/B not interface with HPT, but HPT software itself crashes my computer, and kills my battery. I think there is a message here and all I have to do is stop ignoring the message, and just follow my instinct which is to trash HPT and just pay someone to do this.
I just tried to post and the system has logged me out so I lost everything I typed after this... This is on my desktop. Yep,.. maybe it is ME that is the problem.
I took the wire that was tying PIN/Terminal 5 on my HPT interface to the SIGNAL GROUND in the harness for the W/B and ran them both directly to the negative cable on the battery. Problem persists. Reported AFR in HPT will match the display at low RPM, or anytime when the display is between 13-14.9. HPT WILL NOT DISPLAY anything outside of those numbers-either higher or lower.
I am using the correct Drop down choice as it also reflects the same numbers that are coming up in the Tuning School Calculator.
I've removed the wide band and just given up.
I'm beginning to think there is a problem with HP Tuners Software itself. I have a brand new lap top that I purchased just for HP Tuners. I can use that lap top to surf the web, or run other programs and the battery lasts at least 2 hours, or more before telling me that the battery is down to 25%. Just a little while ago I took my truck for a drive with the intent to do some datalogging. The only thing running was the HPT Scanner. It KILLED my laptop in under 20 minutes. From a full battery to DEAD in under 20 minutes. I was sitting at a red light and looked over to see the "battery low" warning on the screen. As I reached for it to clear it, the laptop shut off. Also if I have anything relating to HP Tuners-scanner or editor-open and I close my laptop, without closing HPT first, when I go to reopen it I have the blue screen of death and it requires a complete reboot. HPT is the ONLY program that does this. I can close and open with a web browser open-no problem. Excel-no problem. Microsoft Office-No problem. Only HPT gets me the blue screen of death every time.
So, not only does my W/B not interface with HPT, but HPT software itself crashes my computer, and kills my battery. I think there is a message here and all I have to do is stop ignoring the message, and just follow my instinct which is to trash HPT and just pay someone to do this.
I just tried to post and the system has logged me out so I lost everything I typed after this... This is on my desktop. Yep,.. maybe it is ME that is the problem.
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02-08-2018, 07:49 AM
#9
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Is your configuration set up correctly? Here's a link how to do that.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-PRO-Interface)
I've included a pic to show exactly how I set my wideband which worked perfectly with a cigarette lighter connection.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-PRO-Interface)
I've included a pic to show exactly how I set my wideband which worked perfectly with a cigarette lighter connection.
02-08-2018, 11:14 PM
#10
Thanks guys for replying. I have not been working with it as I was just frustrated with not being able to get it read properly.
So, according to my owners/instruction manual I have a "NTK Air Fuel Ratio Monitor Gen 2". I had previously set up my channel as the NTK AFX (which obviously uses different parameters). I will try one more time tomorrow to see if I can get it to register correctly. If it does not, I will delete HPT from my laptop, reinstall, and try again. I'm praying it works because I've spent more time trying to get my W/B to work than I have tuning my vehicle.
Larry, THANK YOU! Being a visual person that picture really helps. Yes, on the wiring, I have the SIGNAL ground wire, and a 2nd ground wire going to pin/terminal 5 on my interface tied together and then running forward directly to the (-) terminal on my battery. Will having both the interface, and the SIGNAL ground going to the battery be an issue? I was previously grounding through my cigarette lighter connection but then cut the wire and went straight to battery as per the instructions.
I'm hoping that my problem has simply been that I chose the wrong drop down NTK choice/parameters. I will know in the morning.
So, according to my owners/instruction manual I have a "NTK Air Fuel Ratio Monitor Gen 2". I had previously set up my channel as the NTK AFX (which obviously uses different parameters). I will try one more time tomorrow to see if I can get it to register correctly. If it does not, I will delete HPT from my laptop, reinstall, and try again. I'm praying it works because I've spent more time trying to get my W/B to work than I have tuning my vehicle.
Larry, THANK YOU! Being a visual person that picture really helps. Yes, on the wiring, I have the SIGNAL ground wire, and a 2nd ground wire going to pin/terminal 5 on my interface tied together and then running forward directly to the (-) terminal on my battery. Will having both the interface, and the SIGNAL ground going to the battery be an issue? I was previously grounding through my cigarette lighter connection but then cut the wire and went straight to battery as per the instructions.
I'm hoping that my problem has simply been that I chose the wrong drop down NTK choice/parameters. I will know in the morning.
02-09-2018, 06:03 AM
#11
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Glad it helped. Hopefully the problem is in your configuration. Real easy to make a mistake.
In my case I did not have to go directly to the battery for it to work. But I see why going directly would possibly be better. Would have been more work particularly with mine being in the rear compartment. (2017 C7 Z06)
In my case I did not have to go directly to the battery for it to work. But I see why going directly would possibly be better. Would have been more work particularly with mine being in the rear compartment. (2017 C7 Z06)
02-18-2018, 08:20 PM
#12
Just a quick follow up. I was able to use the drop down for my W/B, but I still had to change the + number in order to get it relatively close. I've got the VE table tuned such that it will run in SD/OL mode and basically stay between 14.5 & 14.9 the entire time (except WOT). Once I switched back to CL I have my STFT's at +/- 3%. I have stopped tuning at this point because I'm now going to change the cam, and then I get to start this process over again. Lucky me!
02-18-2018, 09:54 PM
#14
truck-it was not hard. My current cam is so mild that it took very little change in the VE table to get it spot on. It was just getting the W/B to report correct #'s in HPT. Once I got those #'s to match, it was off to the races!
This week I'm going in with a new cam and then I get to start all over again. It should not take long to get her dialed.
This week I'm going in with a new cam and then I get to start all over again. It should not take long to get her dialed.
02-20-2018, 07:21 AM
#15
yeah just increase the idle airflow a little. maybe do some IAC relearns. set up an AFR % error histogram that plots commanded AFR against observed VE andgives you a % error you can multiply right back into your main VE to correct it. takes about 3-4 drives and I can get it close.
you also might wanna use an EOIT extrapolation program to modify injector tiing. I had to do this with a big cam to get it to idle nice.
here's a link to a decent thread on it
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagn...o-you-use.html
you also might wanna use an EOIT extrapolation program to modify injector tiing. I had to do this with a big cam to get it to idle nice.
here's a link to a decent thread on it
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagn...o-you-use.html
02-20-2018, 05:57 PM
#16
truck-thanks for that link! I really appreciate it!
I am going to go to that link when I'm done typing this post and read it as many times as necessary until it sinks in.
Also, since I'm running L/T headers, I was told that I might have to adjust some integer due to the placement of my O2 sensors.. would you have a link to a post discussing what changes are necessary when going to L/T headers?
Forgot to mention the cam I'm putting in is not that big. Its the Trick Flow 220/224, .575" lift, 112 LSA. Elgin branded, but the exact same cam. I'm hoping it's not such a radical departure that I will be fighting it to get it tuned.
I am going to go to that link when I'm done typing this post and read it as many times as necessary until it sinks in.
Also, since I'm running L/T headers, I was told that I might have to adjust some integer due to the placement of my O2 sensors.. would you have a link to a post discussing what changes are necessary when going to L/T headers?
Forgot to mention the cam I'm putting in is not that big. Its the Trick Flow 220/224, .575" lift, 112 LSA. Elgin branded, but the exact same cam. I'm hoping it's not such a radical departure that I will be fighting it to get it tuned.