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Wow! This is awesome! I was reading a lot of this stuff on Gearhead'PCM Hacking, and 3rd gen a few years ago! You guys have came a looooong way! Awesome work!
There hasn't been much to talk about in this thread recently and I've had a lot of questions asking what the status of this project was since it just kind of seemed to fade away over the last month or so, that was the calm before the storm......
Awesome! My first full read with the Windows app was last night, but I didn't have the tools to find out whether the resulting file was actually good. It's nice to see that it's not just spitting out garbage.
It's super slow right now, but that's a solvable problem.
Then we work on getting it to write changes back to the PCM.
Awesome! My first full read with the Windows app was last night, but I didn't have the tools to find out whether the resulting file was actually good. It's nice to see that it's not just spitting out garbage.
It's super slow right now, but that's a solvable problem.
Then we work on getting it to write changes back to the PCM.
Then it's really party time!
Thank you again for the focus on this. The spoiler video is awesome.
I just got a full read in 20 minutes using a Scantool SX, which I think is close to the best we'll get from that particular device. The next big milestones will be to get the AllPro from ObdDiag.net working, initially at the same standard speed that the Scantool uses (should still be a little faster though because it can transfer more data per request) and then at 4x speed (should be 4x faster of course).
Those are going to require changes to the firmware in the AllPro adapter, which Antus has already done some work on. In addition there's another guy working with us who aims to get the Macchina M2 interface going. It kind of blows my mind that there is inexpensive hardware already in production with open-source firmware just waiting for some apps to come along. What a great time to be alive! With 4x speed and larger transfers, a full read should be under 5 minutes. And writes should be well under a minute since we'll typically only be writing to the segment that has the actual tuning data on it.
In the meantime I'm going to work on making the Windows app's communication more reliable, so that this will work with a PCM that's actually in a car just as well as it works with the one that's on my desk. My first attempt at reading the PCM in my Corvette ended with the dashboard lit up like a Chrismas tree and the engine not starting. It's all good now though, just had to cut power to the PCM to force it to reboot.
I think the AllPro (USB version) is going to be the best thing, but it isn't 100% proven yet. I mean, I think we're two small bug fixes away from a win. If you're an optimist, go ahead and get one. It's under $40 shipped, so there isn't much risk there. Or just watch this space, and order one when we get reading to work at 4x speed. Writing should follow not long after.
We're also pretty close to getting it working with the AVT 852, but those are like $250. If you don't already have one, don't bother.
The Scantool SX definitely will work, but only at 1x speed, so it will never be as fast as we expect the AllPro to be. We're going to pester the Scantool folks to support 4x at some point, but that would almost certainly mean buying a newer one, if they do it at all.
Macchina looks really good too, I have one but haven't done any testing with it yet. VPW support ought to be ready pretty soon, redheadedrod is working on it.
I'm also looking forward to seeing if that can be used as standalone data logger. Plug in, drive, get home, copy the logs over to a PC and get to work...
I had a number of PM's over the weekend that all seemed to have the same basic questions......
Current state of things regarding hardware -
ALLPRO(obddiag.net)
USB - Firmware is under development further, there is a bug in the large blocks we are still tracking down. The device firmware can be user updated pretty easily.
Bluetooth - Currently not looking good for it with out some changes to the way it's programmed.
Dev board - Can be used with USB or Bluetooth, same firmware bug as the USB version currently.
Theoretical "Read" time for a 512K pcm will be about 3 minutes and about 5 minutes on the 1mb pcm's. These times are estimated and have not been validated yet due to a firmware bug. The device will support 4x mode and will be able to read 2048 byte blocks.
OBDLink(scantool.net)
Sx(USB) - Working for complete reads in 1x mode and 512 byte blocks(these are small blocks)
Lx(Bluetooth) - Same as above
Mx(Bluetooth) - Same as above
512K read times are right at the 20 minute mark and 1 mb pcm's are about double that. We will be approaching the company when we feel the time is right and requesting support for larger blocks as well as 4x mode support. These devices are all physically capable of reading larger blocks as well as supporting 4x speeds but the firmware has not been developed to support them. Assuming the company was willing to add support all existing devices would be able to update the firmware to take advantage of the added support. Even if they only added support for larger blocks or 4x either one will be able to drastically speed up the amount of time it takes to read out a pcm.
AVT(avt-hq.com)
AVT-842 - Untested but should be working in therory
AVT- 852 has been tested on 512K and 1mb pcm's and is working as of about an hour ago.
512K pcm takes around 2 1/2 minutes to read and the 1mb takes just a hair under 5 minutes to read. While these times could be further improved they are more then acceptable and are on par with commercial software.
J2534(multiple tool brands)
J2534 - After a great deal of work and a dedicated dll specifically created for this by Envyous Customs we now have a working read. Currently it has been tested against a GM MDI and a VxDiag Nano and they are both working. Currently the J tools are working in 1x mode however 4x support will likely be added with in the next week or so.
512K takes just under 8 minutes to read in 1x mode and a touch over 15 minutes to read a 1mb pcm. Once 4x mode is working these times should drop to around 2 1/2 minutes for the 512K and 5 minutes for the 1mb pcm's.
Recapping
Avt - Fastest but cost the most
J2534- Comparable speed to the Avt, cost varies greatly. Cheap clones are an issue and may not work
Allpro - Will likely end up being the best middle of the road tool and the second cheapest.
Obdlink Sx,Lx,Mx - Unless support is added for larger blocks and/or 4x it will be the slowest tool by a good margin.
Is this the GM MDI interface you’re talking about? The AVT 852 is actually $300 when it’s all said and done with case and cables, this is half that cost and quite honestly - it’s far more professional in appearance.
Is this the GM MDI interface you’re talking about? The AVT 852 is actually $300 when it’s all said and done with case and cables, this is half that cost and quite honestly - it’s far more professional in appearance.
Also - the AllPro USB adapter I’m finding is an ELM device - isn’t that only 1x?
Elm device and Elm command structure are where devices become different. The Allpro and Obdlink Sx,Lx,Mx all use the Elm command structure but are vastly different in terms of design to your Ebay Chinese stuff. The Obdlink devices are only working in 1x for now, The Allpro is a bit different; since it's opensource we were able to make the necessary changes to add support for 4x into the firmware and the change was submitted back to the company. They not only adopted the change they have massively reworked the software for the device to accommodate much larger blocks then it previously was able to work with. So to answer your question.....the Allpro is a 4x device and will support 2048 byte blocks, that is four times larger then the Obdlink devices currently work with and is only half of what the Avt and Mdi are capable of. That puts this in a pretty good place however there are still firmware bugs being worked out but the company is helping out with this task making it a but easier to sort out.
The video I posted was done using a VxDiag Nano. I purchased 5 of these devices before I got one that was genuine, three of the clones came from Amazon but as always Amazon took care of the issue with out much trouble. I'm only linking this as a reference......I am in no way guaranteeing this seller is still selling genuine devices..... but the one I received from them about 6 months ago was the real deal.
As far as the MDI, any time you start messing with clones it's going to be a gamble as to what your buying. There are a LOT of clones for every thing these days and most of them are junk.....however there are always going to be high quality knockoffs that work just as well as the original and it's just a matter of finding one of these if you plan to buy anything other then a 100% genuine OE device.
I’m not a fan of Amazon. They really try to bury the true identity of the seller, their reputation and their feedback, focusing too much on product reviews - that may not even be for the correct item - and orders “fulfilled by amazon” like that means anything. Too easy to be scammed. I don’t feel I should have to return something 3 times before I get the item I was actually trying to purchase. I much prefer eBay.
I’m not a fan of Amazon. They really try to bury the true identity of the seller, their reputation and their feedback, focusing too much on product reviews - that may not even be for the correct item - and orders “fulfilled by amazon” like that means anything. Too easy to be scammed. I don’t feel I should have to return something 3 times before I get the item I was actually trying to purchase. I much prefer eBay.
The odds of getting a genuine VxDiag on Ebay is virtually non-existent right now unless you know something I don't. As we get closer to a beta release I will likely try and track down a seller either on Ebay or Amazon that we can work with to make sure they have the 100% real deal so we can have confidence when we point someone at a device that they will be getting something we know for a fact will work.
I have no issue buying cloned hardware out of my own pocket and testing it..... and I have been over the last 6 months or so......however unless your dealing with the actual manufacturer of the clone'd product there is no way of knowing if the next batch they get will be the same quality. I have sent back more devices that didn't work correctly than I have kept.......I've had to take a break since Paypal sent me a warning for excessive return claims near the end of last year and is the reason I turned to Amazon.
We are supporting a number of inexpensive devices that will likely be superior to most if not all poor quality knock off devices like the worldobd2.com Mdi or most Ebay VxDiag nano's.
05-24-2018, 11:09 PM
