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Wow...that was quite the cop-out considering you post under the name "tech@WS6store". That answer will really make us want to buy from you in the future. Just admit the mistake, apologize for the confusion, and move on.
No cop out. I am sorry for your unicorn experience, but its definitely not the norm and i, myself, have never seen it happen. Ive given my actual history of the instances i have. There is no confusion.
Originally Posted by tech@WS6store
No cop out. I am sorry for your unicorn experience, but its definitely not the norm and i, myself, have never seen it happen. Ive given my actual history of the instances i have. There is no confusion.
I didnt post the above. I’m the one that had the problem. And it’s not a unicorn experience. I could be an *** and say that you haven’t personally seen it that much because a) you are inexperienced, b) you don’t sell that much or c) you don’t have much dealings with the tech/complaint/problem side of the business. I don’t desire to argue any of this, but I’ve read more than my instance on the web and Nick himself admitted sometimes it happens. I didn’t get treated badly by the ws6 store but I just wanted my money back because I chased my tail for months thinking it was in my tuning, a vacuum leak, electric wire problems, connector problems, tps sensor problems. I bought 4. That’s right. 4 different tps sensors including two factory ones. I added grounds. I put the car on a lift and traced wires. I went through way more **** trying to find the issue than I ever posted about. This whole ordeal sucked and it’s pissing me off the more I think about it. I could go on and on but I’m getting myself agitated the more I think about it. After all that bullshit, I put a $89 China throttle body on the car and my phantom problem went away. I put that on the car while I sent the nick Williams back. Needless to say my problem never came back and I never put the nick Williams tb back on. I’ll never waste almost $400 on a nick Williams tb again. If I told you guys how he (nick) wanted to fix it, you guys would get pissed off just like I did. So I’ll stop right there and say maybe my situation was very rare. I lost a lot money and time that I can’t get back. So needless to say, I can not recommend buying a NW throttle body. I’ll buy a China one, mod the spring and drill the iac hole and call it a day.
I didnt post the above. I’m the one that had the problem. And it’s not a unicorn experience. I could be an *** and say that you haven’t personally seen it that much because a) you are inexperienced, b) you don’t sell that much or c) you don’t have much dealings with the tech/complaint/problem side of the business. I don’t desire to argue any of this, but I’ve read more than my instance on the web and Nick himself admitted sometimes it happens. I didn’t get treated badly by the ws6 store but I just wanted my money back because I chased my tail for months thinking it was in my tuning, a vacuum leak, electric wire problems, connector problems, tps sensor problems. I bought 4. That’s right. 4 different tps sensors including two factory ones. I added grounds. I put the car on a lift and traced wires. I went through way more **** trying to find the issue than I ever posted about. This whole ordeal sucked and it’s pissing me off the more I think about it. I could go on and on but I’m getting myself agitated the more I think about it. After all that bullshit, I put a $89 China throttle body on the car and my phantom problem went away. I put that on the car while I sent the nick Williams back. Needless to say my problem never came back and I never put the nick Williams tb back on. I’ll never waste almost $400 on a nick Williams tb again. If I told you guys how he (nick) wanted to fix it, you guys would get pissed off just like I did. So I’ll stop right there and say maybe my situation was very rare. I lost a lot money and time that I can’t get back. So needless to say, I can not recommend buying a NW throttle body. I’ll buy a China one, mod the spring and drill the iac hole and call it a day.
Did NW offer to fix it free of charge? It should be taken care of due to manufacturing defects. It was never ws6store problem they are just a dealer.
So if you had a problem with the OEM throttle body, you would take the car back to GM, not the dealer, and tell them they need to fix it? If you buy a new water pump from Autozone and it leaks, you go right to the manufacturer for another one bypassing Autozone? If you buy some fruit from the grocery store and it is bad, you go to the orchard and ask for your money back?
The dealer or distributor makes a pretty decent profit on this stuff for basically doing a little paperwork in most cases. There was a dealer on here that dumped me back to the manufacturer when I got a defective product. The manufacturer generally has paths that need to be taken by the distributor to settle issues. They had no idea what to do when I called. Luckily, I somehow got transferred to an engineer and he sent me a new item. I was pretty screwed without it. Never did hear back from the distributor that advertises on here. Never buy from them again.
So if you had a problem with the OEM throttle body, you would take the car back to GM, not the dealer, and tell them they need to fix it? If you buy a new water pump from Autozone and it leaks, you go right to the manufacturer for another one bypassing Autozone? If you buy some fruit from the grocery store and it is bad, you go to the orchard and ask for your money back?
The dealer or distributor makes a pretty decent profit on this stuff for basically doing a little paperwork in most cases. There was a dealer on here that dumped me back to the manufacturer when I got a defective product. The manufacturer generally has paths that need to be taken by the distributor to settle issues. They had no idea what to do when I called. Luckily, I somehow got transferred to an engineer and he sent me a new item. I was pretty screwed without it. Never did hear back from the distributor that advertises on here. Never buy from them again.
I had to laugh when I read this because you are so right and that’s how I felt.
No what I'm saying it it is NW responsibility to honor the defect warranty and fix it I would've still called ws6 so they can be a middle man and provide quality customer service and get ahold of NW for you to resolve the issue. I have spent a lot of money with ws6 and have never had issues. No NDA was signed so if your going to trash them might as well upload the proof that you were mistreated. Otherwise its hear say. Pics of the TB when it was sent back would've been nice as well, and copies of the tune for everyone here to look at. For all we know, there was never anything wrong which is why it was sent back to you and it wasn't tuned properly for correct idle air control.
No what I'm saying it it is NW responsibility to honor the defect warranty and fix it I would've still called ws6 so they can be a middle man and provide quality customer service and get ahold of NW for you to resolve the issue. I have spent a lot of money with ws6 and have never had issues. No NDA was signed so if your going to trash them might as well upload the proof that you were mistreated. Otherwise its hear say. Pics of the TB when it was sent back would've been nice as well, and copies of the tune for everyone here to look at. For all we know, there was never anything wrong which is why it was sent back to you and it wasn't tuned properly for correct idle air control.
You may may want to reread what I posted. Never did I say I was mistreated. I’m trashing no one, I’m stating facts. I didn’t even want to post any of this but when ws6 store rep stated there’s never been a problem with a NW throttle body, and I personally had an issue, I felt it was necessary to speak up. I have all the emails, and while I could post them, I don’t feel it’s necessary. I’m not trying to smear ws6 name. I was just stating facts that I had a legit issue with the Tb and the fact that I wasted a bunch of time and money (I never mentioned that I had it professionally tuned, paid for that and the problem was still there) and ws6 store would not give me my money back. You can believe what you want, it does not matter to me. I’m not making this **** up. I wanted to post the emails......you know what...flick it. Here’s one of them. No need to post his reply because all it was -was nicks email address directing me to him. Like I said I’m not bashing. Never said I was mistreated. But eventually I asked for a refund and they wouldn’t do that. They did try to help by telling me to do a tps reset and wait ten minutes etc. which later on I figured out that the tps automatically resets itself when you cut the key off. So that was zero help there. I’m sure you’ll say this proves nothing except I had a problem. And you did state that it was probably my tune. Which it was not, the problem was corrected after I got a different throttle body.
I have sold, installed, and tuned more NW tb than i can even count. Ask any reputable shop or tuner, they will recommend NW first.
As far as the rest, based off the tens of thousands NW makes a year vs your issue THEN comparing it to the myriad of issues from other companies that offer tbs, you had a unicorn problem.
We will do out best to help, but like bspeck said, its really normally an issue between the end user and the manufacturer. The analogy with gm and a tb isnt even relevant because it is completely different.
More on par is a local parts store wnty. They dont make the part, they just sell it. And as such they only enforce the wnty that comes with the part. Sometimes you are sent to deal directly with the company and not with the reseller. That depends on the EUA, End User Agreement. Quite often, with alot of aftermarket parts or race parts, there is no wnty either written or implied. In those cases, we still strive to do the best by our customers in either getting the situation handled with the manufacturer or in finding a comparable solution/fix. Sometimes it costs extra sometimes it doesnt.
You had a bad experience with NW. Does that kake them bad? No. One bad experience out of hundreds of sales per year from us and thousands for NW. You gave your personal experience, and I gave mine.
I have sold, installed, and tuned more NW tb than i can even count. Ask any reputable shop or tuner, they will recommend NW first.
As far as the rest, based off the tens of thousands NW makes a year vs your issue THEN comparing it to the myriad of issues from other companies that offer tbs, you had a unicorn problem.
We will do out best to help, but like bspeck said, its really normally an issue between the end user and the manufacturer. The analogy with gm and a tb isnt even relevant because it is completely different.
More on par is a local parts store wnty. They dont make the part, they just sell it. And as such they only enforce the wnty that comes with the part. Sometimes you are sent to deal directly with the company and not with the reseller. That depends on the EUA, End User Agreement. Quite often, with alot of aftermarket parts or race parts, there is no wnty either written or implied. In those cases, we still strive to do the best by our customers in either getting the situation handled with the manufacturer or in finding a comparable solution/fix. Sometimes it costs extra sometimes it doesnt.
You had a bad experience with NW. Does that kake them bad? No. One bad experience out of hundreds of sales per year from us and thousands for NW. You gave your personal experience, and I gave mine.
Hey man, that’s cool. You’ve never seen a problem with a nw Tb. Even though I bought it from where you work. Which is funny I think. First one I bet bought was a dud. And I couldn’t even get a refund after all the time and money I spent, thinking it was my fault. I’ve NEVER had an auto parts store refer me to the manufacturer. NEVER. I’ve worked for discount auto parts and advance auto parts as a manager. I’ve never referred a customer to the manufacturer. WE ALWAYS TOOK CARE OF IT. ALWAYS. Customer wanted a refund, no problem. They wanted a replacement, no problem. Now I work at a dealership in the parts dept and we do t do that there either. It’s the service after the sale is what matters. While you guys attempted to help, all it did was make me chase my tail even more. I told you guys when I borrowed a throttle body from a friend that the problem went away. Why you couldn’t swap it out? Why couldn’t I get something different like I asked? I asked if I could get a Holley one, you guys said the Holley one is just. I asked for a Fast, you guys insisted the nick Williams was better. Well maybe that’s true, but the nw I had was defective. And he even admitted it. And sent it back to me with electrical tape wrapped on the shaft to take up the slack it had in the tps. I was like WTF? Are you SERIOUS? I spend $400 on a Tb and instead of swapping out the shaft for a correctly machined one, I get it back with tape wrapped around it? you couldn’t give me one of those ***** now. The frogging China one I have now doesn’t need tape wrapped around the shaft. That’s weak. Unicorn experience my ***, he admitted to seeing it happen numerous times. I’m done. You think NW is the best. Great. They look like a piece of art. I’ll admit that. But if it isn’t mached correctly, and my engine keeps dying because of it, well that ain’t worth a **** to me.
Something I saw touched on briefly on the first page to avoid stalling was discussion of the stall saver setting in the PCM and a rather low RPM value. Stall saver can be adjusted in 100 RPM brackets from something like 400 up to something like 1200-1300 RPM and you can enter any value you want in the table. There is really no excuses that you should ever run into a stall condition short of just dumping the clutch with no throttle. As RPM drops progressively lower increasing the desired stall saver target RPM much higher is a simple way to make sure it never stalls....just be careful if you have it raise the RPM too high you could run into a near stall that turns into a huge RPM flare and causes the vehicle to jump forward/backwards when your least expecting it.
Going hand in hand with the stall saver is the idle speed over/under spark control by RPM. A lot of people will use this table to try and "mellow" out how a big cam behaviors at idle speed and in doing so they royally botch the table up. While I'm no tuner I've had a number of people come to me asking about idle issues after being tuned and the tuner inverted the table.....it's an easy thing to do and I've done it myself before by mistake but once you know how it impacts idle control it's easy to notice it's not working as intended. You would really be amazed how much this table affects idle control, my plow truck has the old SBC Vortec 5.7 in it and I've tweaked this table far enough the truck sounds like it's got a nice little cam in it when in fact it's 100% stock.I pulled a TON of base timing, cranked up the desired air flow to keep it running and put in some pretty big spark correction values for target RPM control. It's pretty funny to see peoples faces when the instant i touch the throttle the sound instantly returns to a quite smooth stock sounding idle. I've also worked with the tables before on a 6.0 and made a Sloppy Stage 2 cam sound damn near stock but the idle control was **** poor. The Pcm spark control and IAC were doing every thing they could to try and make the engine idle smooth and there was no real control left when the RPM fell outside of what it was wanting to see.
And last but not least is the "Rolling" idle compensation table. If your RPM hangs too high while your coasting then this would be a good place to start addressing the concern.
There is absolutely no reason an engine should be stalling or having the RPM hang too high even with a monster cam. If a preset mechanical advance distributor and a toilet bowl(Aka Carb) are able to keep a cam'ed engine running then you should expect no less from EFI. Just remember that by installing a larger cam you've compromised the engines ability to run smoothly at low speed, EFI will give you a way to get some of the smoothness you've lost back when compared to a carb but in doing so your going to compromise other aspects of the low speed/RPM run ability.
Now a mechanical issue with a throttle body....that's a totally different case.
Here's what I do... Idle is set at 750. 244/252 @.050, .634/.634 114+4. Overall duration is 292/305 with 93* of overlap seat to seat. It CAN be done. Playing in the scanner I can push the idle under 600, and it runs without help from the throttle.
Here's the "Stall Saver Mod" that doesn't actually use the stall saver (derivative airflow from IAC STIT's). Though that is an option, spark is much faster to correct. No motor to open.
Note - values are not meant to be exact, as this varies car to car, so don't copy the values, just the method. Set the first two columns to 30 or 35 and interpolate them to your first "real" column, i.e., 800.
Also, fix your air issues. It probably is a badly tuned IAC that is causing the issue, however, this little trick I'm sharing helps in the meantime for stalling.
as far as nick williams being anyone's first choice...nah man not even close. any tuner worth half a **** would recommend the holley 112-583 over the nw
as far as nick williams being anyone's first choice...nah man not even close. any tuner worth half a **** would recommend the holley 112-583 over the nw
That’s the exact throttle body that wd6 store talked me out of. I thought it would be good to have the adjustable airbleed and tps. They said it was junk.
At .050 duration, that cam has 10 deg of overlap. The Wallace calc likes to use adv duration, which is .006" lift. This calc is .050.
That's an issue. 5 degrees makes it difficult. You have 10.
Second, you started from a Truck tune? Truck tunes are odd. They aren't cars. They have a bunch of adders relating to load and AFR designed to tow.
And they have "nothing Cams". 0 overlap.
Restart from an 01 or 02 Camaro tune. At least they have a small cam. The idle settings are totally different.
Headers? Running closed loop? That's also an issue. The O2 sensors get lazy and do not control fueling.
I am in Vancouver as a tuner. Would love to know who you took it to. PM me. I prob already know...…..
The torque converter is not the issue. The cam is. Even though it's "not that big" It has a fair amount of overlap.
I'm awful tired of tuner blaming. Find a tuner who has a recipe for big cams? Well ask before you let them work on it. Your orig tuner was just being honest.
With several shops having their mitts in the tune, best to start over.
FWIW, why a 112 lobe sep cam? 114 is easier to tune and they run damn good.
At .050 duration, that cam has 10 deg of overlap. The Wallace calc likes to use adv duration, which is .006" lift. This calc is .050.
That's an issue. 5 degrees makes it difficult. You have 10.
Second, you started from a Truck tune? Truck tunes are odd. They aren't cars. They have a bunch of adders relating to load and AFR designed to tow.
And they have "nothing Cams". 0 overlap.
Restart from an 01 or 02 Camaro tune. At least they have a small cam. The idle settings are totally different.
Headers? Running closed loop? That's also an issue. The O2 sensors get lazy and do not control fueling.
I am in Vancouver as a tuner. Would love to know who you took it to. PM me. I prob already know...…..
The torque converter is not the issue. The cam is. Even though it's "not that big" It has a fair amount of overlap.
I'm awful tired of tuner blaming. Find a tuner who has a recipe for big cams? Well ask before you let them work on it. Your orig tuner was just being honest.
With several shops having their mitts in the tune, best to start over.
FWIW, why a 112 lobe sep cam? 114 is easier to tune and they run damn good.
I agree with you. There are too many guys who think it's more important to hear it lope than actually making it run well.
They forget that, that lope is really an intermittent miss that throws efficiency right out the window.
But they're too macho to admit to running anything under a 230/240, .625 110LSA cam. That would be really wimpy... lol
09-12-2019, 07:31 PM
