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The only thing I've had goofy happen when using serial, is if you stop the log and start a new one. The wideband goes away and you have to restart the scanner. Other than that, it's been easy peasy.
If it's been a while i would to a heater recal and a fresh air cal. If the sensor is really old. I'd get a new one.
Does the new MPVI2 do standalone logging? I saw something about it on the product page, but can't find any real info on it. "in the works" or something still?
I believe PRO does the standalone, but I dont know if thats out yet. with pro and prolink you can record more external inputs, and i think some kind of hub is in the works last I read, but im not really overly worried about that. the MPVI2 does have Bluetooth capabilities so that might make standalone redundant if you can datalog on a tablet or some kind of other small devise.
Alright!! we got wb reading in hptuner now. got my serial cable finally. took a sec for my computer to find the driver for it but its in there now! hooked into the out side of the cable on the gauge. getting some readings. gotta figure out why i have a no start issue now though. I think i need to do a vats physical bypass, as ive already had it disabled in the tube before. i had a P1626 code on the DTC. I did just do HID and fan harness upgrade, but indont think that could have fried abything. im jist glad i have this scanner now to really see whats going on. once i get that sorted out, then ill actually see what my WB is reading. according to the gauge, the WB says 22 but HPT says 20.
Alright! did some data logging and even did some very minor write calibrations. messed with the fans settings a bit, set up my fuel pressure for boost referenced FPR. Set the IFR to 60 across the whole table, then adjusted my FPR without the reference on to about 58, and then hooked the reference back up. flashed the tune in and took it for a test drive. Some WOT issues for sure. Turbo is spooling, I can hear that sucker. made 2 psi of boost, but cant figure out yet why its running so rich. At 100% TPS the AFR drops to 9.0 and its just bogging and sputtering, just a dog. It want to pull until about 3000rpm, and then just bogs and richs out.
I took a screen shot of a spot where its showing this.
I uploaded my current tune and scan file as well. Car was running rich before, now its worse after I moved the turbo up front. Not sure why it would start running so rich and keep me from getting boost. use to make 10 psi and pull hard on rear mount, now its struggling rich to get to 2psi, and I haven't really even started tuning anything. im actually trying to clean it up
again it was tuned speed density. I don't even think. I adjusted the PE table is set to 1.257 across the tables.
SO my next question is, after I gather some data from a drive... what do I do with it? I see data up on the right hand corner, and I hear "paste in data" all the time, but what exactly are you guys doing to adjust stuff after you make a run, based off of what exactly? I have data, now I just don't know what to do with it LOL but im learning!!
Check out my VE tuning guide for a complete tutorial on what to do with the data. Now, that said, you need to get the mechanical boost PSI solved before continuing here, unless it’s being caused by that rich condition, as in not being able to spool because of you not being able to reach the appropriate RPM, etc.
With an 8 PSI difference from before, it appears that you are getting rich because of the lack of PSI. I’m not on my laptop, so I’m just going off your screenshot and what you said here, not your tune or log. I would investigate throughly and try an see why you aren’t hitting 10 PSI. This sounds like the problem, as this will obviously affect the tune, and your airmass model(s). My worry is, if you tune it for 2 PSI and then later get it back to 10, you may end up in a lean condition, which is dangerous. However, since you are running SD, this is MAP based, in theory that spot on the table should always be 2 PSI. However considering this issue sounds mechanical, that means that may change after it’s corrected and that same spot on the table may be 4 or 6 PSI later, or 10 like you stated it was before. In that case, you would suddenly become dangerously lean.
As for your question on how to use the data, I made videos exactly for this purpose in order to save me keyboard time explaining it. The link is in my signature, and you may find a number of videos there to help you expand your knowledge on tuning. I cover boost too, the physics behind it, scaling, and a ton of other useful things to know. In the long run, those videos save everyone time, including you, because it’s all right there laid out for you.
If you have the typical Siemens 60# high z injectors and are running them at 4 bar of fuel, you don't set the IFR to 60. The 60# rating is at 3 bar of fuel.
Last year I bought the MPVI2 for my newer camaro. I had been using EFI Live for my Formula but I am having issues w/ tuning my 127 lb injectors so I am switching over to HP Tuners hoping to have better luck.
I also bought the newer style AEM wideband so I had to add a couple of pins and wires and hoping to log the wideband by the serial method. I hope mine works out.
Weird how the standard wideband method is analog with the new HP Tuners for the older vehicles.
Check out my VE tuning guide for a complete tutorial on what to do with the data. Now, that said, you need to get the mechanical boost PSI solved before continuing here, unless it’s being caused by that rich condition, as in not being able to spool because of you not being able to reach the appropriate RPM, etc.
With an 8 PSI difference from before, it appears that you are getting rich because of the lack of PSI. I’m not on my laptop, so I’m just going off your screenshot and what you said here, not your tune or log. I would investigate throughly and try an see why you aren’t hitting 10 PSI. This sounds like the problem, as this will obviously affect the tune, and your airmass model(s). My worry is, if you tune it for 2 PSI and then later get it back to 10, you may end up in a lean condition, which is dangerous. However, since you are running SD, this is MAP based, in theory that spot on the table should always be 2 PSI. However considering this issue sounds mechanical, that means that may change after it’s corrected and that same spot on the table may be 4 or 6 PSI later, or 10 like you stated it was before. In that case, you would suddenly become dangerously lean.
As for your question on how to use the data, I made videos exactly for this purpose in order to save me keyboard time explaining it. The link is in my signature, and you may find a number of videos there to help you expand your knowledge on tuning. I cover boost too, the physics behind it, scaling, and a ton of other useful things to know. In the long run, those videos save everyone time, including you, because it’s all right there laid out for you.
I really appreciate the direction on this. I had some Idea, and I have been following along the start guide, and even following along the LSX Tuning Guide, although I think some of the guide is a bit dated. I will double check the wastegate as well as the BOV. Im wondering if I don't have the manual boost controller tightened down enough. I have a 10lb spring in the gate, but what you are saying might be the condition, it very well could be the turbo shoving as much air as it can out the wastage if its only making 2lbs currently. I wonder if I should try tuning it with just the spring for now, and then introduce the controller later? making me want to get eboost street now more just so I have a better control setup. I will take caution not leaning it out yet until I can make close to 8psi if it is a mechanical issue.
I really appreciate the video direction! The PDF's and guides are good, but damn a video really helps with the "visual". With HPtuners updates in the past few years and MPVI2, some of the tables or views looks look different or might be named differently slightly. It also doesn't help im limited to a 98 PCM.
Originally Posted by ddnspider
If you have the typical Siemens 60# high z injectors and are running them at 4 bar of fuel, you don't set the IFR to 60. The 60# rating is at 3 bar of fuel.
These are Mototron 60# injectors that were working just fine on my rear mount setup. I was reading around that when you tune for SD, you are suppose to copy the entire IFR to at or near your rated injectors, such as 60lbs, and then with a Boost Referenced FPR you are support to set the fuel pressure to your desired pressure, in my case 58psi with the references disconnected and plugged temporarily. once the constant FP is set, simply hook up the reference line, and then flash the tune. AT least that's my understanding.
Originally Posted by Bill00Formula
Last year I bought the MPVI2 for my newer camaro. I had been using EFI Live for my Formula but I am having issues w/ tuning my 127 lb injectors so I am switching over to HP Tuners hoping to have better luck.
I also bought the newer style AEM wideband so I had to add a couple of pins and wires and hoping to log the wideband by the serial method. I hope mine works out.
Weird how the standard wideband method is analog with the new HP Tuners for the older vehicles.
Holy cow those are some big injectors lol I have some 80lbs on standby but I want to get this tune sorted out first before I do anything else. I also have a 450 pump just in case I run out of fuel with the 255. Having the serial option is definitely nice, as I don't have to spend an extra 250 for the hookups and for something I already have. unless I start tuning more cars, im ok with just my own.
The part you are missing is that those injectors are not 60lbs at 58 psi. They're 60lbs at 3 bar of fuel. If you're saying you're pig rich in boost it's probably why. I just looked at 1 of my tunes and the IFR is straight not sloped since it's boost referenced on the FPR, but the value in the cells is closer to 73lb/hr.
Siemens Deka 60 injector data in the "sticky" shows 75.2 lb/h at 0.0 Manifold Vacuum which you'd copy to the rest of the table when using a boost/vacuum referenced regulator. That is if he's running those Siemens 60's
The part you are missing is that those injectors are not 60lbs at 58 psi. They're 60lbs at 3 bar of fuel. If you're saying you're pig rich in boost it's probably why. I just looked at 1 of my tunes and the IFR is straight not sloped since it's boost referenced on the FPR, but the value in the cells is closer to 73lb/hr.
AH, ok I get what you're saying now. I forgot that most injectors if not all are rated for 43psi or 3 BAR, so would a boost referenced FPR, would I be better to set the IFR to about 72-73lbs instead? and should it be across the whole table or scaled?
Also, I watched several of those videos. I found a few flaws in my original tune. Matter of fact, the IFR was only scaled around 60lbs anyway from the get go, so I wonder if that was part of the issue as well. I set up the tables for VE AF error so I can data log, and then copy and past into the VE table. Im gonna see if I need to modify it anymore than I need to. I learned how to copy and paste into the tables as well as smooth surrounding tables. Im gonna leave the spark alone for now, as it actually looks ok compared to the videos I was watching. Learned a lot on the VE video as well as the boost video. Almost like a light bulb moments once everything kind of clicked into place.
I screen shot my high octane and Spark tables for reference as well, sorry if I don't have the maps orientated correctl. Its just to give a picture of where everything is currently, before I do any changes. Like I said, a lot of the original tune was pretty smooth, but obviously something needs to be adjusted for the enrichment, if not in the tune something physical maybe like the wastegate spring, manual boost controller, or even the BOV. One thing that make me concerned but im not sure if its important yet, since I haven't logged my driving time yet, is that the LTFT and STFT are all over the place. I was reading somewhere that it should be between -5. Now do I need to concern myself too much on this if i'm tuning in Speed Density, not going with the MAF?
This weekend when I have an hour or so to kill, im gonna do a nice cruise down my highway that has some decent hills, 55MPHish and stop lights along the way. I might be able to get on the interstates but I don't want to push it too far yet. not sure how long my battery will last on my computer for logging.
also here's the new layout of my scanner with the recommended PIDs and graphing. Everything is saved and adjusted in a new file, and ready to upload and take the car for a decent drive. probably at least 30 minutes to an hour. The little bit of data I got yesterday barley gave me anything for VE except the top most rows. I practiced copying and pasting though those in and then tried to smooth what I could. I can tell that can get annoying after a few tries lol
I copied that 60lbs injector files IFR and I will try that out and see how those do with that setup. I think it starts around 72 or 72 and scales up to 83lbs. Ill copying it across the table after some logging to see if that changes anything. I think I might remove the boost controller and just rely on gate pressure for now. until then.
Any objections to this?
Make sure you are in open loop while tuning the VE tables. The o2 sensors will not trim the fueling while in open loop so no worries about the stft & ltft yet. When you go back into closed loop make sure you clear the ltft in the VCM scanner so the old ltft data doesn't skew the trims .
Edit to add: do you have a secondary VE table? If so remember the ECM looks at the secondary VE table first. So enter the data there then copy over to the primary table, then interpolate between the missing numbers in the row axis.
Siemens Deka 60 injector data in the "sticky" shows 75.2 lb/h at 0.0 Manifold Vacuum which you'd copy to the rest of the table when using a boost/vacuum referenced regulator. That is if he's running those Siemens 60's
Make sure you are in open loop while tuning the VE tables. The o2 sensors will not trim the fueling while in open loop so no worries about the stft & ltft yet. When you go back into closed loop make sure you clear the ltft in the VCM scanner so the old ltft data doesn't skew the trims .
Edit to add: do you have a secondary VE table? If so remember the ECM looks at the secondary VE table first. So enter the data there then copy over to the primary table, then interpolate between the missing numbers in the row axis.
Yep I did that, I followed to the letter the VE tuning video for setting data logging. I dont think I have a secondary VE. All i have is a primary VE table unless its
hiding somewhere else. Heres my menu for VE
And I also have it in open loop like the VE video told me to do lol
seen here:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Exactly.
I did this. I set the IFR to 72lbs across the table and man does it run better already.
So here is my current VE table after one run for 40 minutes. Did a little bit better, especially with the IFR set to 72lbs across the table now. must smoother now. Tried to do a few 60-70% WOT and I think I saw 6 or 8 psi but then I had the throttle body coupler pop off, and all of a sudden I noticed that Instead of BOV noise it was just spooling. But I got up to about 4500RPM without breaking up now. I went to take my manual boost controller off but that's when I found the coupler popped as well as the controller off from boost, so I don't have data on that yet.
But day and night with attempted WOT. Idle is settles down to 800rpm faster. heres some VE smoothing I did from the last drive and the data log
06-05-2020, 03:50 PM
