Tuned diesel owners shot themselves and that industry in the foot by “rolling coal”. I guess that’s cool for diesel guys to do. But obviously folks noticed the late model “clean” diesels smoking.

The thing with HPT is their latest version removed the ability to mess with DTC settings. So if you still have 4.8.x don’t update.

MPVI1 still re-syncs credits no issue. I don’t have MPVI2, although friends do. They just use for their single vehicle to data log.

Hopefully HPT doesn’t adopt Microsoft’s method, and doesn’t force us into software updates.

Man some of you guys are your own worst enemy, when the EPA starts cracking down more and more you are going to be grateful you can do anything at all with your vehicles and companies like HP Tuners are going to be the ones fighting to keep tuning alive.

Also when HP Tuners bricks interfaces being used with hacked versions of their software I highly support them and hope that these jackasses get persecuted under the fullest extent of the law for doing so. Theft is theft, don't be a sack of ****. They are NOT bricking legitimate interfaces no matter what somebody says on the internet and the old MPVI1s are still working just fine. Yes they have done firmware upgrades to help prevent hacked versions of software from being used with their cables and rightly so and the EPA is making them remove certain features from their current software.

And no you don't have to be connected to the internet to use an MPVI2. There are exceptions with certain vehicles like the C7 ZR1 and some later year vehicles due to encryption but you can't tune those with the old cables anyways.

Agreed, anyone using the cracked software is stealing and is a criminal and is a piece of trash. But, to be clear now that we know what is happening, you are wrong in implying HPTuner's complete innocence. I am going to state this again. Minimally they silently pushed a firmware update to the MPVI-I units that caused them to NOT WORK with older versions of software that SOME customers legitimately and legally USE AND NEED. (Google for the boat tuner, that's one I remember). Supposedly this was an attempt to block the few hackers out there, every customer lost access to versions they paid for. And, some (not me, yet) are accusing them of attempting MPVI1 genocide by inducing errors and problems to attempt to get MPVI1 owners to send their hardware in for repair which they seem to never return (all allegedly), instead offering deals on the MPVI2 units which won't ever run the cracked software. So no, HpTuners is NOT innocent in this in my opinion, they sold out their loyalty to their customers with that firmware push minimally.

I say allegedly on the MPVI1 error/replacement program because it very well could be that the errors that followed the firmware upgrade and the bugs in that very next 4.2(?) I think it was absolutely could have been real bugs, but it's very suspicious that the youtuber I linked in my last post was unable to find a SINGLE person who had any MPVI1 repaired and returned to them even when he offered a bounty.

I am not raising holy hell about it because this is exactly what I would expect from this greedy ruthless company, whose reputation existed and was widely known even prior to my purchase. I have 3 cars and have licenses for them all, so I'm good. My HPTuners will never be online or upgraded ever again. Now if they somehow break my current existing solution that I paid for fair and square, I will raise holy hell. Future cars will be attempted with TunerPro or other donateware solution, hopefully that will be the end of my risk and stress with HPTuners. If not, and HPTuners once again is the best solution, I'll consider buying an MPVI2 just for the new car. But niether HPTuners nor the EPA will have the opportunity to rip out my existing features remotely.

So what? You didn't lose access to anything and they want everybody using their newer software to stop the hackers. As a company you are allowed to protect your IP. You speak about legitimately and legally use and need, the newer versions work just fine and have even more features than the older hacked versions had. I'm not googling for anybody's opinion because I don't care about their opinion when I do this stuff on a daily basis.

There are no such things. As far as trying to get people to upgrade to MPVI2s that is a very real issue when there is no longer any stock of the older devices and you can't fix it, MPVI1s came out a LONG time ago and they have long since exhausted stock of those devices.

A youtuber, who gives a ****. Anybody can make a video and put it on the internet. I've had several MPVI1s replaced and returned without issue over the years and so have many of my friends who didn't spend nearly as much as I did so that point is moot.

Are you serious? You think one of these freeware solutions even comes close to something like HP Tuners? You think these freeware solutions or TunerPro are impervious to the EPA? Good luck to you, your going to need it.

Only 2 things in your HPT love rant worth replying to, this dead horse has been beaten into the ground. You're obviously emotional about this for some reason, but facts are facts.

You're dead wrong. First, as mentioned above, apparently their latest version removed the ability to mess with DTC settings. I don't know because I still have the settings because I didn't upgrade. Also, I and everyone else lost access to all software prior to 4.x or whatever the firmware updated version BLOCKED forever. This meant we all lost FEATURES that were legally needed and used by many, features that were in only the old versions. I don't have a diesel but HPT effectively took away my access to those features should I want them, even in a totally legal way. Are they allowed to do that? Sure. But there's a cost for stabbing all customers in the back to simply try and thwart a few hackers, and messages like this in a public forum is one of them.

As I said, in the years to come when I get another car I want to tune, I will re-evaluate. You may be right, and if they are the best I will likely buy an MPVI2 in spite of their reputation again. But by damned, I am far from a loyal customer, and yes I will likely express my opinion then too. In the meantime I'll be keeping my MPVI1 OFFLINE and will never upgrade it again because I feel like I have to protect myself because they could do this again and eliminate other features without warning for any petty reason that may save them a nickel. Isn't that a shame I have to do that?

It's a good product. Just a bad company with cocky support and greedy policies.

I think I see why you're so emotional about this, you are sort of the HPTuners teacher's pet. Not trying to insult you, just can't think of a better way to describe it. You've spent so much money with them and worked with their support so much you received special treatment. You need to realize that your experience isn't the same as the average Joe (or the OP here), who gets cocky answers from support and are treated like crap if/when they lose credits through some fluke.

Edit: one more point you're missing:

Try it now, send them an MPVI1 with a firmware problem post firmware update. Dare ya. My prediction is you'll never see your MPVI1 again. If you do, you can collect the bounty. You're making my point for me that they USED to reflash the MPVI1's and fix bugs/firmware update problems and return the hardware, so we KNOW they CAN. So now since the hacked software got out they WON'T return YOUR hardware YOU paid for (allegedly)? I'm just saying that's horrible if true, and I personally believe it to be true. Most other companies I'd give benefit of the doubt but for this company no way. Their reputation indicates this is absolutely something they would do.

I'm not emotional at all, I just get a kick out of watching people shoot themselves in the foot. I've had plenty of customers that only have single digits of credits and been taken care of just fine so you tell me why there is a difference in how people are treated.

Actually I'm pretty sure they came out and said if you send in a broken MPVI1 they will upgrade it to an MPVI2 because there are no more MPVI1s available and no more chips available to fix anything with. And again I don't listen to youtubers with an axe to grind, I use this stuff every day and so do many others and it's not like that but whatever.

Oh you are still under the impression that you should have access to mess with certain things even though legally you are not allowed to, it's a matter of the EPA making them remove it they didn't chose that. If you think they chose to just remove something like that just to spite the customer you are DEAD WRONG. Don't try and play the legally needed game, you won't win that one.

Again, removing something from a product because the EPA hammer is coming down on them isn't them trying to save a nickel. You may want to familiarize yourself with what has happened to other companies in the last year or two related to the EPA.

I really like HPTuners, the software. I reallly do. Enough that I bought it the first time and am admitting that I'd buy it again in the future if someone else doesn't have a better alternative for me. So we agree on that. Right now it's the best software in both our opinions.

Agree to disagree on this one. If the EPA forced it then fine. I'll eat my words here if some indication comes out to show this. But I won't believe the EPA made them do the surprise unannounced irreversible upgrade to the firmware in the MPVI-1 devices which made all software (coincidentally) from the cracked version backwards no longer work. I understand your angle.. if EPA made them do that then I'd concede. My belief is the evidence hints otherwise, they screwed every single customer to prevent a few hackers in my view.

Then, rumors floating around that MPVI's were being genocided right after. I am talking about people who sent in their MPVI1 and claim they could never get it back even when they asked for their original equipment back. Let me see if I can find the link where that was reported.

To be honest, this is a button for me too. I truly believe the company chose to secretly greatly harm their customers to fight a small hack (money) risk.

Remember there were a lot of users who lost these functions when they used them LEGALLY for racing, or boats or International remote tuning.

oooh boy this getting good

Legally? C'mon, don't be dense. The EPA will change that definition as they see fit and companies that are attempting to bypass things that they regulate will have to change as well or they will cease to exist. Your defense would be laughed out of court as it's very evident to see what has happened to companies and individuals already. There are many more things that are going to come to light in the next few years so buckle up. HP Tuners didn't do anything to greatly harm their customers, that's nonsense. I can still fully tune a vehicle without issue with their current software so let's not pretend you can't do it now because of your cable. BTW, do you know the first thing that made it into the court cases against individuals and companies? Forum and Facebook posts, think about it.

I don't have a diesel nor plan on ever getting one, and I'm already on record stating that I was not directly affected and won't be using my MPVI1 unless I need to tweak my current TA tune. Others were affected, and although you want to pretend that EPA made your golden-child company do it, the facts the timeline and their reputation all combine to lead me to believe the theory that they pushed the firmware to stop just a few from using the older hacked version (which also made all older versions unusable) which made a product others paid for and relied on to no longer work for them, that's my opinion.

Did they disable the ability to disable EGR? Or rear O2's? Nothing else changed, right? Just the blocking of older versions? Yea, EPA did that.

Again, I'm not affected, I've said that in my prior posts, I am annoyed out of principal and want to verbalize to others as a warning. I think we've covered this pretty thoroughly now with our opinions, let's just move on. I'd love nothing more than to hear someone say "I sent my MPVI1 back to HPTuners and they repaired my firmware and sent it back to me" post-firmware push and after the alleged MPVI1 genocide. Please post here if you're reading this and this has happened to you. Provide proof, you may also qualify for a $50 bounty and I'll gladly post a formal apology for stating my theory. We are both speculating here, but honestly which is more likely?

Let's let this dead horse rot and move on. Unless there's some additional facts (not opinions) I don't plan on going on with this thread. My opinion won't change without additional facts. By the way I agree with you it's just going to get worse and yes the EPA will be behind most of it considering global warming is THE leading story on the news now and we have an administration in office that's willing to up the EPA funding and power. Racers who turn street cars into race cars may be in trouble with no solution to do so some day soon.

We need ton make sure the right people get into office who will castrate the EPA/CARB. It CAN happen!

yeah i dont like breathing, its for losers. same with clean water.

By castrate, I don't mean eliminate. Just keep them operating within reasonable (yeah... open to interpretation...) parameters.
Sometimes they like overstepping their bounds.
Nowadays very few are turning their cars into gross polluters.
Compared to the general population, those who tune or modify their cars are a distinct minority. And only a few of those actually increase their car's emissions to a huge degree.
EPA mainly needs to police J.Q. Public in maintaining their cars better. If any newer cars are polluting, it is the poorly maintained commuters/family cars owned by the mechanically ignorant.
Most hotrodders like a crisp-running car. This means running fairly efficiently, keeping the A/F within reasonable limits. They are not the problem the EPA thinks they are.

i blame the coal rollers and youtubers. they are a mix of ******** and attention ****** flaunting illegal mods to the population at large. in a sense, they forced the EPAs hand.

Yeah. I enjoy a clean environment as much as the next person and do believe the EPA is a force for good. But its no different from any typical giant company - sometimes the head finds its way up the ***. Emissions was a huge problem back in the 70s when the EPA first came together to fix it. And the air quality in the USA is cleaner now than it ever has been since then, even with double the cars, people and industry. But with the air quality continuing to improve despite the miniscule year over year improvements from automotive emissions control...we can afford to relax a little bit lol. Fun fact, the EPA can legally fine an automaker over a hundred million dollars for failure to document a piece of software in an ECM that could but does NOT cause a vehicle to fail emissions. Just failing to declare the possibility of an AECD, regardless of being able to operate the vehicle in conditions that cause it to happen. The EPA is way too heavy footed these days...

I'm glad you both caught my drift. We DO need SOME regulation... but NOT overregulation.

Since we're off HPT and on to EPA as a topic I will actually chime in a bit more.

G Atsma, you are exactly right. Couple facts:

One Container Ship creates more pollution than 50 MILLION automobiles (not a typo):
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...0-million-cars

There are 20 firms that generate 1/3 of all carbon emissions:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...rbon-emissions

As far as the ships, they apparently switch over to "bunker fuel" when they leave nationally enforceable zones and that stuff is the worst.

As far as the firms, they are going to try to cut the snake at the head. The electric cars for day to day stuff should help this I'd think. But there's a lot of other giant contributors in there.

We tuners are such a small miniscule contributor I'd suggest we're insignificant.

I don't know if humans are causing global warming, but I think it is certainly happening based on the science. Is it a natural occurrence irrelevant of humans? No idea. But I don't think allowing a few enthusiasts to burn some fuel to race some cars is going to make a huge difference when we have MONSTER polluters out there.

I am undecided how hard of a line we should take on curbing all pollution and going green but chasing onesey twosey car tuners seems petty and not the best place to focus.

There IS cyclical temperature variation which has happened since time began. We are now in the warming segment of the current cycle.
As far as electric cars, they are only as clean as what is generating the juice at the source.
And mining the materials for the batteries raises another series of environmental concerns.
It is far from a squeaky clean process....

How bigs that cam in that 427....or was it 468? 😆