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This is the HPTuners math I use to get VE at any point of the engines operation off of a calibrated MAF signal. 0.7875 is the cylinder volume of 1 cylinder of my 383 in Liters. Insert the displacement of whatever you are working with there. 8 is the number of cylinder, if you are working on a 4 or 6 change as needed. I also calculate CFM off MAF Flow and Temperature as a reference.
I have been tuning since around 2000 and have done so professionally since about 2003. You were not wrong in that video and were onto the right concept, it's just people not understanding what is actually happening behind the scenes and WHY it was a good starting point.
Your experience shows. I have no training I just thought about it from a common sense standpoint and did what I thought would give me a safe starting point for the new motor. I live in an area where professional tuners are non-existent, so I often get friends that ask me how I do things, so I share. At no time do I say this is the only way to do things or is it the best way...only that this is how I did it and it worked. There have been a few times friends with newer vettes have asked for tuning help and I refused because although I had some common sense theories I had never actually tested them on their specific combo or situation in the real world. Too many people are giving advice on combos based upon theory for things they've never actually tried in the real world.
As shown in the video I was able to setup a base tune for a starting point in a matter of minutes. I was able to start the engine without issue and put it through a heat cycle. At that point I changed the oil/filter and looked everything over for any leaks. From there I started driving it and tuning within a couple short drives I had it very close AFR wise and was able to start making wot pulls. From there I had the AFR where I wanted it and started adding timing while checking plugs. This is a guy that had maybe a year of experience tuning with hptuners at the time. My first tuning experience with hptuners was a cammed procharged sbe. I never hurt that motor, but only took it up to 14 psi before I decided to pull it and sell the good running ls1. I put that money towards building a forged ls3 block.
Keep in mind the 3 times I used this technique(once for myself and for two friends) they were all speed density tunes for boosted applications no maf involved. I also did both start up tunes for my friends for free. I've done plenty of sbe cammed 6.0 and 5.3 truck tunes using a maf locally, but what I did in the video was obviously not needed on those tunes.
Definitely not the first time I’ve been wrong, and certainly won’t be the last. This is very good insight into the why. Thank you for your knowledge nic. We all got a bit smarter lol.
I haven’t forgotten that you helped me get started when I was making the decision to start doing my own tuning.
I don't even remember that lol. Appreciate it though. Just try to help others since I was helped. Guys like Greg Banish @turbolx and @joecar helped me along the way. I'm still learning (and currently fighting with my truck in the fueling section 🤣 ). You've obviously come a long way too!
I don't even remember that lol. Appreciate it though. Just try to help others since I was helped. Guys like Greg Banish @turbolx and @joecar helped me along the way. I'm still learning (and currently fighting with my truck in the fueling section 🤣 ). You've obviously come a long way too!
Why you gotta drag me inta this?
@NicD is correct about the history lesson and formatting of V and cylinder volume being linked. Heck, I even pointed this out in my original GM Tuning DVD ( with that segment that's now on streaming HERE) It's indeed a "feature" in HPTuners that shifts the VE displayed values automatically in an effort to "help" the user. In my video, I showed pretty much the same thing where we change the cylinder volume and then re-insert the original VE values as a starting point for calibration. Chances are, if you have a stroker motor and bigger cam, you'll be changing them anyway, but at least you start with a more reasonable estimate.
@NicD is correct about the history lesson and formatting of V and cylinder volume being linked. Heck, I even pointed this out in my original GM Tuning DVD ( with that segment that's now on streaming HERE) It's indeed a "feature" in HPTuners that shifts the VE displayed values automatically in an effort to "help" the user. In my video, I showed pretty much the same thing where we change the cylinder volume and then re-insert the original VE values as a starting point for calibration. Chances are, if you have a stroker motor and bigger cam, you'll be changing them anyway, but at least you start with a more reasonable estimate.
Unicorn sighting LOL. What have you been doing Greg, anything new and interesting in the tuning world and OEMs?
So when he increases the displacement (making VE% go down) and then he pastes in the original VE%, he is increasing the raw VE table by the % change, right...?
I usually just work with the raw g.K/kPa VE table.
i had a 1997 5.7 NPR that i did a 0411 swap on and basic clean up of the tune then later got a 1997 454 vortec dually and did the same 0411 swap. the only thing i changed in the tune was cyl displacement and it was pretty darn close from the get go. 454 was stock except rv type cam. efilive.
ive never used hpt but i always thought (in my first hand experience with efilive) that the ve table was not displayed relative to the cyl volume variable. im curious now and going to pull up those two tunes and see.
and for some of the early posts in this thread, wow, heres a gift
Unicorn sighting LOL. What have you been doing Greg, anything new and interesting in the tuning world and OEMs?
I'm still around, my work has just evolved a bit. I just finished writing book #3 (on emissions and diagnostics), which should be out this year once the publisher gets their end sorted.
I also released a commercial version of my PFI Injector Test Bench that creates exact plug and play calibration data from any set of injectors in just minutes. This should really change how we approach ECU calibration. Once enough shops have these on hand, users will be able to quickly get precise data for their specific set on injectors, saving time and headaches during the tuning process.
Beyond that, I have a bunch of mostly emissions-based projects in the background. I still love playing with the go-fast stuff, which is why you occasionally see me in places like this helping enthusiasts who want to learn.
I'm still around, my work has just evolved a bit. I just finished writing book #3 (on emissions and diagnostics), which should be out this year once the publisher gets their end sorted.
I also released a commercial version of my PFI Injector Test Bench that creates exact plug and play calibration data from any set of injectors in just minutes. This should really change how we approach ECU calibration. Once enough shops have these on hand, users will be able to quickly get precise data for their specific set on injectors, saving time and headaches during the tuning process.
Beyond that, I have a bunch of mostly emissions-based projects in the background. I still love playing with the go-fast stuff, which is why you occasionally see me in places like this helping enthusiasts who want to learn.
very cool, love the idea of everyone being able to get their own injector data for their exact set of injectors. There seems to be ALOT of emphasis on emissions and the EPA dropping hammers on tuning companies, etc. Seems like there needs to be a better middle ground.
joecar, nice to see you're still around! At this point I'm just going to start tagging long time members and see who pops up LOL.
Do it !!!
I'd like to see more of the guys with 20+ years of real world tuning experience come back. Joecar probably doesn't remember either, but he gave me some pointers early on that helped me out as well. I'm really appreciative of everything I've learned from some of the long time members here and also wish we could bring it back the way it used to be. I've found some good info that is vehicle specific on the book of faces, but the discussions aren't nearly as technical/informative as they used to be here.
I'd like to see more of the guys with 20+ years of real world tuning experience come back. Joecar probably doesn't remember either, but he gave me some pointers early on that helped me out as well. I'm really appreciative of everything I've learned from some of the long time members here and also wish we could bring it back the way it used to be. I've found some good info that is vehicle specific on the book of faces, but the discussions aren't nearly as technical/informative as they used to be here.
There arent very many of us left that have been around that long. I have been tuning for 20 years and can count on one hand who is still around from when I started. I have seen hundreds come and go but the list seems to get smaller and smaller of who has been around along time.
There arent very many of us left that have been around that long. I have been tuning for 20 years and can count on one hand who is still around from when I started. I have seen hundreds come and go but the list seems to get smaller and smaller of who has been around along time.
Only been tuning LS stuff for about 15 years here, but OBD1 goes well beyond that. I had my first eeprom burner in 2003. Not many guys left on the OBD1 sites either and many that helped me early on have passed on. Grumpy was a big help when I first started.
01-16-2023, 12:39 PM
