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Holley Terminator X goes way rich on startup, hot or cold
E-85 turbo car. New Terminator X conversion. Cookie cutter 6.0, 210# injectors.
I basically turned off the AfterStart Enrichment but still keep seeing 9.55 (gas scale AFR), or .65 Lambda for exactly 14 seconds, mostly on on cold starts, but does it just about every startup. .
I'm wondering if it's just the O2 sensor not being warmed up?
I have Closed Loop come on full time, which helps a ton, and keeps it from trying to stall/die.
I have Learn Table off unless TPS is over 5%
I don't see this happen on my son's Terminator X setup, with same injectors, but a 4.8 engine...
We both run version V3
Any insight appreciated. Straight answers are near impossible to get on any Holley pages or forums, so hoping someone here has an idea.
i meant that as a way to check that the o2 warm up is the issue you are seeing.
if the o2 just isnt warmed up yet theres nothing 'wrong'
the ecu wont correct until the engine is warmed up anyway.
i meant that as a way to check that the o2 warm up is the issue you are seeing.
if the o2 just isnt warmed up yet theres nothing 'wrong'
the ecu wont correct until the engine is warmed up anyway.
sounds like other parts of the tune need massaging. for that period of time you posted, the o2 isnt doing anything except displaying. its not being used in any kind of feedback or correction.
i cant see your tune and i obviously havent seen your car start in person, but id start with adding enough cranking air so it flares to ~1200-1400 then immediatly drops to target idle + 100-200 , then add afterstart air to have it drop from 1-200rpm over target to target within 5-10 seconds.
im no sooper tooner but that is how i like to have my cars start, its a strong, quick start immediatly dropping into a healthy idle when its tweaked right.
Without a data log just guessing but on terminators I see some have a delay on the O2 sensor heater. I just make an advance table to ignore the sensor for x amount of seconds until its warmed up or you can run OL at idle.
sounds like other parts of the tune need massaging. for that period of time you posted, the o2 isnt doing anything except displaying. its not being used in any kind of feedback or correction.
i cant see your tune and i obviously havent seen your car start in person, but id start with adding enough cranking air so it flares to ~1200-1400 then immediatly drops to target idle + 100-200 , then add afterstart air to have it drop from 1-200rpm over target to target within 5-10 seconds.
im no sooper tooner but that is how i like to have my cars start, its a strong, quick start immediatly dropping into a healthy idle when its tweaked right.
I have Closed Loop set to come on immediately. If I set a temperature for it to go CL, it will just about stall during that 15 seconds.
I dont doubt the tune needs massaging. Ive only driven the car a handful of times. Ripped the fabricated aluminum trans pan off of the 4l80 on a highway to bridge transition a d car was out of commission for 2 weeks for that....them the other day, my 2 week old radiator started leaking...been a struggle so far. Told my son I'm ready to put a 78/75 and my factory ecu back in service, lol.
QUOTE=minytrker;20504897]Without a data log just guessing but on terminators I see some have a delay on the O2 sensor heater. I just make an advance table to ignore the sensor for x amount of seconds until its warmed up or you can run OL at idle.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't aware we were able to post a Holley log or tune on here?
But, if I run open loop on startup, that's when the car wants to die. With CL on, it'll catch itself.
Originally Posted by 91 Z28
Should post your tune for somebody to look at as well.
I'll try to figure out how to post tune and log. Haven't tried to post any Holley stuff. I know HPTUNERS was easy to attach
Not sure if I am articulating correctly here or not.
The car idles and runs great...once it gets past that initial startup, pig rich for 15 seconds, thing. It actually starts, runs, and drives, great as well.
I was just trying to figure out why it goes way rich, then straightens out 20 seconds later.
It goes rich (on STARTUP only), whether it's in CL or OL.
It idles fine AFTER that initial issue, again, whether it is in OL or CL.
I figured the Closed Loop was doing its job, trying g to correct, as it subtracts 10-15% while it acts up.
Once car is fully warmed up, it seems to be fine.
Fuel correction cruising around and at idle has been 2% or less the majority of the time.
Hopefully, that helps the clarity of what I'm having an issue with.
Thanks, so far, for all the replies. I will try to attach a tune and log when I get home from work
"TRANS AM FIRST DRIVE" is current, very rough draft, tune. Any advice is appreciated. This tune (mostly fueling added) was updated AFTER the datalog was viewed. Still very "green" with the Holley, I'll be the first to admit, lol.
"nice drive new radiator" should show fresh startup after sitting a few days
I just quickly looked at it, here are a couple things:
I'd raise base fuel psi to 50 psi ( seems to work better on those injectors IMO)
VE table is not super smooth right off idle
Turn off Lean and use CL to get it dialed in
Log and Tune file need to match for someone to help
You want slow throttle movements to try to get the best data you can
What temperature does your closed loop and open loop come active at? It should be AFTER all of your temperature and startup enrichment is done, say 140ish degrees.
Have your tried reducing the startup enrichment percentage as seen below?
These values seem to work great for my 6.0, with 50lb injectors whether I am on E or pump gasoline.
A quick way to see if it is in fact the O2 sensor heating element or not would be to start the car cold for 20 seconds, shut it down, and then immediately crank it up again. The element should be heated by that point. But your O2 should not be enabled for startup anyway. Closed loop will fight with your temperature enrichment.
Idle tuning is the bedrock that cold start is built on. First you need to refine your idle and off idle zones very well with engine at full operating temp. After that you can fine tune the startup enrichments.
Idle is one of the most difficult things to tune. Expect to spend time at it.
06-12-2023, 07:21 PM
Holley Terminator X goes way rich on startup, hot or cold 
