LS1 large cam heads wont idle Vindicator Cam
#22
So i finally got the car to idle and run again. Not sure what the big fix was unfortunately. It sounds to me like it has a timing issue or something bigger going on. Lots of popping and backfiring like timing is out of wack or something. I was finally able to get a lot of fuel out of the VE table and still have the car run. It is filling the garage with smoke and the backfiring tells me something is still way off.
#23
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (39)
You need to be logging more channels. I'll attach a channel list. You will need to delete the 2bar MAP sensor and add yours. Also delete the WB02 and add yours.
You need to do a TPS reset. The TPS is showing 2.4% which tells me you opened the throttle blade, which is fine, but you need to do the TPS reset to get the TPS to show 0% at idle, A lot of cars will show .4% at idle too which is fine.
You need to do a TPS reset. The TPS is showing 2.4% which tells me you opened the throttle blade, which is fine, but you need to do the TPS reset to get the TPS to show 0% at idle, A lot of cars will show .4% at idle too which is fine.
#24
Moderator
Is your wideband only logging or also going to a gauge? If gauge, what does it read?
Fouling and smoke/smell generally means too rich, but backfiring can be too lean or a "timing" issue.
How confident are you that the camshaft was timed correctly?
Fouling and smoke/smell generally means too rich, but backfiring can be too lean or a "timing" issue.
How confident are you that the camshaft was timed correctly?
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rickbat (06-26-2023)
#25
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (39)
In your log, map is showing 96 kpa when it's idling.
Yeah that's not possible. Either the sensor itself is bad, which will cause all sorts of issues or it's scaled wrong in the tune, or you are somehow logging the wrong PID.
Try that channel list I posted. We can tell absolutely nothing with your log.
If the car thinks its at 96kpa, it's going to be dumping a **** ton of fuel into it.
Yup, I just went back and looked at the log again. When it hits closed loop, it starts pulling out 50% when the engine gets above 1200rpm. If you look at your VE table and see what fueling you have at that rpm and Kpa, you will understand why.
KOEO Kpa is the same as when it's running. You need to fix that first and foremost.
Yeah that's not possible. Either the sensor itself is bad, which will cause all sorts of issues or it's scaled wrong in the tune, or you are somehow logging the wrong PID.
Try that channel list I posted. We can tell absolutely nothing with your log.
If the car thinks its at 96kpa, it's going to be dumping a **** ton of fuel into it.
Yup, I just went back and looked at the log again. When it hits closed loop, it starts pulling out 50% when the engine gets above 1200rpm. If you look at your VE table and see what fueling you have at that rpm and Kpa, you will understand why.
KOEO Kpa is the same as when it's running. You need to fix that first and foremost.
Last edited by LilJayV10; 06-25-2023 at 02:29 PM.
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rickbat (06-26-2023)
#26
Yeah i did notice that was thinking no way that looks normal. Now going back to my old logs before this new setup MAP was reading 45 and when you hit the peddle it goes up accordingly never hitting the range I'm seeing now at idle. This sure feels like the smoking gun and why i cant get a starting point to tune!!!
I don't think its scaling issue since it never moves out of the same 9x reading. Its either bad sensor or bad wire. I'm hoping its just the sensor have one coming on wed...
Sorry what KOEO stand for?
I don't think its scaling issue since it never moves out of the same 9x reading. Its either bad sensor or bad wire. I'm hoping its just the sensor have one coming on wed...
Sorry what KOEO stand for?
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rickbat (06-26-2023)
#29
Well i had to go walk to the shop had to take a closer look. MAP fell out of the back of the intake. @#%! So now i feel like a dumbass but why i could not start scanning and tuning cause the car did not want to run. I guess lesson learned even a quick scan just to check sensors is a place to start...!
Please chime if you see anything jumping out. I know i need to start reading all the docs now and get going. Done chasing the ghost that map sensor was causing. Hearing the car run again without pops backfiring and tears coming out of your eyes from the raw gas smell is huge...
log is just a short idle file after closing the TB and setting up the PLX wideband also loading the config @LilJayV10 was kind enough to provide!
Please chime if you see anything jumping out. I know i need to start reading all the docs now and get going. Done chasing the ghost that map sensor was causing. Hearing the car run again without pops backfiring and tears coming out of your eyes from the raw gas smell is huge...
log is just a short idle file after closing the TB and setting up the PLX wideband also loading the config @LilJayV10 was kind enough to provide!
Last edited by rickbat; 06-26-2023 at 09:31 AM.
#30
I was able to get some more fuel out of the VE table 400-1200 RPM to where the wideband is staying around 16AFR at 800rpm idle. I have my timing set flat at 23 from 400 - 1200rpm but seeing lots of fluctional not sure that's normal or not.
Still seeing some smoke out the tailpipes but I'm sure that's going to be norm with this setup.
Attaching last tune file and log if anyone sees anything else I'm missing.
Still seeing some smoke out the tailpipes but I'm sure that's going to be norm with this setup.
Attaching last tune file and log if anyone sees anything else I'm missing.
Last edited by rickbat; 06-26-2023 at 04:34 PM. Reason: add video lonk
#31
10 Second Club
iTrader: (26)
16 may not be out of line with that large of a cam. If your AFR and timing is stable and it's still oscillating then you aren't getting enough airflow. You either need to command more desired airflow or possibly adjust the idle set screw. All this stuff is in the docs I attached.
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rickbat (06-26-2023)
#34
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (39)
You need to close the throttle body some, it's pulling out like 6 grams a second and IAC is completely closed. An 1/8 of a turn makes a huge difference on that big of T/B.
You need the fail the MAF, if you don't, it's pointless to make changes to the VE table.
Don't worry about what the timing is doing at idle right now. It's a donkey dick cam, it's gonna chop.
The alternator isn't charging.
You need to go back over what has been suggested in some of these posts and look at the guides that have been given.
As of right now, you are chasing your tail.
Fail the MAF, correctly
disable idle adaptives
raise the idle speed, it's not going to be happy at 800
You gotta do the basics first.
You need the fail the MAF, if you don't, it's pointless to make changes to the VE table.
Don't worry about what the timing is doing at idle right now. It's a donkey dick cam, it's gonna chop.
The alternator isn't charging.
You need to go back over what has been suggested in some of these posts and look at the guides that have been given.
As of right now, you are chasing your tail.
Fail the MAF, correctly
disable idle adaptives
raise the idle speed, it's not going to be happy at 800
You gotta do the basics first.
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rickbat (06-27-2023)
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rickbat (06-27-2023)
#36
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (63)
this is what i found from researching flow rate vs kpa should show for injectors, the rest of the data looks right on your tune
6.984 7.027 7.070 7.113 7.156 7.199 7.241 7.283 7.325 7.366 7.407 7.448 7.489 7.530 7.570 7.610 7.650
also as lil jayv go back , look at some suggestions and update your channels , fail maf correctly etc.
Alot of people dont mess with the EOIT but i personally like to make the changes. you can dm me if you have any questions i can help via teamviewer aswell.
6.984 7.027 7.070 7.113 7.156 7.199 7.241 7.283 7.325 7.366 7.407 7.448 7.489 7.530 7.570 7.610 7.650
also as lil jayv go back , look at some suggestions and update your channels , fail maf correctly etc.
Alot of people dont mess with the EOIT but i personally like to make the changes. you can dm me if you have any questions i can help via teamviewer aswell.
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rickbat (06-27-2023)
#37
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (39)
If you are just learning how to tune, this is not going to be the easiest thing to start out on, but it's definitely doable.
Try this tune.
Idle adaptives have been turned off, MAF failed, some things have been put back to stock, some things that I know is a decent starting point, forced open loop at idle.
Close your TB some, do a TPS reset and see if it will run.
Try this tune.
Idle adaptives have been turned off, MAF failed, some things have been put back to stock, some things that I know is a decent starting point, forced open loop at idle.
Close your TB some, do a TPS reset and see if it will run.
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rickbat (06-27-2023)
#38
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (63)
If you are just learning how to tune, this is not going to be the easiest thing to start out on, but it's definitely doable.
Try this tune.
Idle adaptives have been turned off, MAF failed, some things have been put back to stock, some things that I know is a decent starting point, forced open loop at idle.
Close your TB some, do a TPS reset and see if it will run.
Try this tune.
Idle adaptives have been turned off, MAF failed, some things have been put back to stock, some things that I know is a decent starting point, forced open loop at idle.
Close your TB some, do a TPS reset and see if it will run.
The following users liked this post:
rickbat (06-27-2023)