ok, does HPTuners make
12-29-2004, 05:20 AM
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ok, does HPTuners make Idle control with bigger cams any easier? Like getting the IAC and all that **** dialed in. I have my current cam, TSP 231/237 112*, pretty close on the idle, startup and coast to idle with little if any surging, but it takes forever, especially with the lack of technical help and Edit. This is about the only advantage to EFILive using Bidirectional controls over HPT. But then again, until I purchase HPT and use I dont know, so I wanted to ask.
I havent sat in front of Edit since my deployment so I cant recall all the tables needing adjustment, but I am sure most know what I am talking about, the Air flow decay, etc....
TIA
Charlie
I havent sat in front of Edit since my deployment so I cant recall all the tables needing adjustment, but I am sure most know what I am talking about, the Air flow decay, etc....
TIA
Charlie
12-29-2004, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CAT3
Idle control with bigger cams any easier? Like getting the IAC and all that **** dialed in. I have my current cam, TSP 231/237 112*, pretty close on the idle, startup and coast to idle with little if any surging, but it takes forever, especially with the lack of technical help and Edit. This is about the only advantage to EFILive using Bidirectional controls over HPT. But then again, until I purchase HPT and use I dont know, so I wanted to ask.
I havent sat in front of Edit since my deployment so I cant recall all the tables needing adjustment, but I am sure most know what I am talking about, the Air flow decay, etc....
TIA
Charlie
I havent sat in front of Edit since my deployment so I cant recall all the tables needing adjustment, but I am sure most know what I am talking about, the Air flow decay, etc....
TIA
Charlie
The next release (v1.6) includes just about every idle parameter in the PCM for LS1's and we will be adding some custom stuff to the scanner in future to enable viewing of the adaptive idle learned values to assist even more.
The main thing to keep in mind is that the idle "learn" procedure takes a while. if you just change your idle RPM, base running airflow etc. you need to idle PN/ingear/ACon/off for about 2-3mins in each state for things to stabilise again (dependant on the magnitude of the change). It is quite easy to actually get the right values in the PCM but dismiss them cos you didn;t wait for the adaptive parameters to stabilise (or didn't realise they have hit the upper or lower limits). Again another reason we are adding this stuff to the scanner in future.
HTH,
Chris...
12-29-2004, 07:27 AM
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Chris, WTF is VCM Controls? And some ppl think Army jargon is hard to understand....internet takes the cake!
Ok let me ask this. Is there a easier instruction, a newer method, or anything for dialing in idle? For comparison this is what I used with Edit:
Drill a hole in the TB Blade, start small work up, let it learn each time. This was fine for P/N. Put in gear a little different, hole was increased in size (at the time I seen so many ppl respond saying this technique was outdated and if you messed with the plethora of idle controls you can dial it in w/out drilling holes, but noone would give up the "secrets"). So then came the cruise, or WOT to idle problems, the cruise control effect etc... I was told if you change one parameter you need to alter others as well or else things will never be quite right, again "secrets" of the tuners trade. I messed with everyone one of those tables, night after night, day after day, I did learn one thing.....PATIENCE! Now I would love it if there was a simple way, better instructions on what the change will effect or something. Am I dreaming? Hope not.
Thanks for the reply BTW.
Charlie
Ok let me ask this. Is there a easier instruction, a newer method, or anything for dialing in idle? For comparison this is what I used with Edit:
Drill a hole in the TB Blade, start small work up, let it learn each time. This was fine for P/N. Put in gear a little different, hole was increased in size (at the time I seen so many ppl respond saying this technique was outdated and if you messed with the plethora of idle controls you can dial it in w/out drilling holes, but noone would give up the "secrets"). So then came the cruise, or WOT to idle problems, the cruise control effect etc... I was told if you change one parameter you need to alter others as well or else things will never be quite right, again "secrets" of the tuners trade. I messed with everyone one of those tables, night after night, day after day, I did learn one thing.....PATIENCE! Now I would love it if there was a simple way, better instructions on what the change will effect or something. Am I dreaming? Hope not.
Thanks for the reply BTW.
Charlie
12-29-2004, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by CAT3
Chris, WTF is VCM Controls? And some ppl think Army jargon is hard to understand....internet takes the cake!
Ok let me ask this. Is there a easier instruction, a newer method, or anything for dialing in idle? For comparison this is what I used with Edit:
Drill a hole in the TB Blade, start small work up, let it learn each time. This was fine for P/N. Put in gear a little different, hole was increased in size (at the time I seen so many ppl respond saying this technique was outdated and if you messed with the plethora of idle controls you can dial it in w/out drilling holes, but noone would give up the "secrets"). So then came the cruise, or WOT to idle problems, the cruise control effect etc... I was told if you change one parameter you need to alter others as well or else things will never be quite right, again "secrets" of the tuners trade. I messed with everyone one of those tables, night after night, day after day, I did learn one thing.....PATIENCE! Now I would love it if there was a simple way, better instructions on what the change will effect or something. Am I dreaming? Hope not.
Thanks for the reply BTW.
Charlie
Ok let me ask this. Is there a easier instruction, a newer method, or anything for dialing in idle? For comparison this is what I used with Edit:
Drill a hole in the TB Blade, start small work up, let it learn each time. This was fine for P/N. Put in gear a little different, hole was increased in size (at the time I seen so many ppl respond saying this technique was outdated and if you messed with the plethora of idle controls you can dial it in w/out drilling holes, but noone would give up the "secrets"). So then came the cruise, or WOT to idle problems, the cruise control effect etc... I was told if you change one parameter you need to alter others as well or else things will never be quite right, again "secrets" of the tuners trade. I messed with everyone one of those tables, night after night, day after day, I did learn one thing.....PATIENCE! Now I would love it if there was a simple way, better instructions on what the change will effect or something. Am I dreaming? Hope not.
Thanks for the reply BTW.
Charlie
12-29-2004, 07:42 AM
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They just call it VCM because that's where things are headed,
one brain box for the whole car instead of a bunch of separate
modules.
There are a bunch of idle airflow controls as they said. In the
little bit of big-cam tuning I've done, the big deals seem to be
elsewhere. First, the whole VE surface (table) has to be "tilted"
to represent the poor low-RPM pumping and enhanced big end.
That takes some cut-and-try but you can work through it by
iterations, idling in open loop, if no other way. Then, you will
probably find that your idle MAP when in open loop has put you
well up onto the high enrichment part of the open loop fuel air
table when your engine temp is below the closed loop enable
point. This really pigs it out.
The idle loop really has no prayer of being stable if the idle
mixture is whacked. Even narcoleptic O2s will hurt you there
as the short term trims will search for mixture from ditch
to ditch. An open loop tune and a setscrew idle adjust
sure does sound appealing....
If I were to drill holes I would only drill out the hole in my
TB-porting epoxy fill to give the IAC more authority. If you
can't idle stable with a half-open IAC servo and passages
that are equivalent cross-section, I don't think it's an air
problem per se.
I think if you are chasing an unstable idle problem the IAC
counts are something to log, as well as the O2s, STFTs
and the commanded fuel air multiplier. If the IACs are
wandering all around and you have unstable idle then the
tail is probably wagging the dog. If the IACs are way up
(I think the range is like 255?) or way down against one
end then it could be an IAC authority problem wanting
more bleed (or a hole undrilled, heh). But the tighter your
idle mixture tune the less air you need to idle, the smaller
IAC step you need to make adjustments to hold speed and
the more stable the loop will be.
one brain box for the whole car instead of a bunch of separate
modules.
There are a bunch of idle airflow controls as they said. In the
little bit of big-cam tuning I've done, the big deals seem to be
elsewhere. First, the whole VE surface (table) has to be "tilted"
to represent the poor low-RPM pumping and enhanced big end.
That takes some cut-and-try but you can work through it by
iterations, idling in open loop, if no other way. Then, you will
probably find that your idle MAP when in open loop has put you
well up onto the high enrichment part of the open loop fuel air
table when your engine temp is below the closed loop enable
point. This really pigs it out.
The idle loop really has no prayer of being stable if the idle
mixture is whacked. Even narcoleptic O2s will hurt you there
as the short term trims will search for mixture from ditch
to ditch. An open loop tune and a setscrew idle adjust
sure does sound appealing....
If I were to drill holes I would only drill out the hole in my
TB-porting epoxy fill to give the IAC more authority. If you
can't idle stable with a half-open IAC servo and passages
that are equivalent cross-section, I don't think it's an air
problem per se.
I think if you are chasing an unstable idle problem the IAC
counts are something to log, as well as the O2s, STFTs
and the commanded fuel air multiplier. If the IACs are
wandering all around and you have unstable idle then the
tail is probably wagging the dog. If the IACs are way up
(I think the range is like 255?) or way down against one
end then it could be an IAC authority problem wanting
more bleed (or a hole undrilled, heh). But the tighter your
idle mixture tune the less air you need to idle, the smaller
IAC step you need to make adjustments to hold speed and
the more stable the loop will be.
