Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

Why would I?? Its a open loop tune. Like already mentioned above, if I smooth out the table, my AFR will end up all jacked up. After I have the VE table dialed in, my cold start is fine as well.


Throttle Response is night and day difference.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

I am curious as to how you managed to get the VE table so smooth in a open loop tune without altering the AFR? Is it because it is a SI car? I have seen it done before, but other tables such as IFR/MAF were altered to compensate. Chris and a few others say it is not needed or necessary to do so.

BTW: 2.0 sure does look nice.... Need a beta tester.

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

My AFR table is modified but only to command the desired AFR I am looking for at those cell values... The stock table is not meant to be run full time. It's a bit rich in places.

If my table was not smooth the throttle transitions would suck.

Log commanded AFR to see what your PCM is trying to obtain.. If your tune is stock you may not like the values you see in a SD vehicle.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

I have altered my AFR multiplier table to give me a 14.737 AFR at all times. I have my Stoich value at stock (14.62857) and altered my AFR multiplier table to result in 14.737 for all maps up to 80kPa. I then adjusted the VE table to result in the commanded AFR of 14.737. Is this not the correct way to achieve this?? My throttle response/transition on my car seems awsome.

Magyver

Isn't that a bit lean?

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

What does your Narrowband O2's strive to maintain when you drive normally?? This is for cruise only. At WOT, my afr ramps from 12.5-13.3. It is commanded by the PEvsRPM table after 80kpa.

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

I have a multiplier of 1 on my AFR table for all cells above 140 F.

I use PE to increase desired AFR under load. I know as soon as my car is in PE by the change of the commanded AFR as I only run 2 AFR's.. but I also only tune for a very narrow temp range as I race with no thermostat.. In more normal driving conditions I would modify my AFR table to be more temp friendly.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

So for us normal people that are tuning the car for daily driving, is it possible to have a VE table smooth in open loop/SD? Here is my VE table. With this table, my AFR is exactly where I want it to be. I don't understand how I would smooth it out and still retain my commanded AFR.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/attachmen...chmentid=25125


PS. Would still like to help beta test 2.0 if you need someone....

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Definately.

You can see bumps at various parts of the table caused by various intakes and h/c combinations.. but the transition between the bumps and the surrounding areas should be smooth.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

How do you get them smooth without effecting the AFR? Would you smooth the VE table and then alter the AFR table to compensate for he VE change?

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Your VE table needs a major overhaul.

VE does not change your commanded AFR.. your AFR and PE tables do..

With your commanded AFR table and PE table set to the AFR you desire, your PE table should generate a AFR (use your WB O2 to log) that matches your commanded AFR.

Also, disabling the LTFT's helps when you tune the VE table.. re-enable when you are done.

The AFR Commanded Error histogram in HP Tuners VCM Suite makes VE tuning a snap.

Be sure to log the commanded AFR.. I think there may be a couple spots in your tune that may be throwing your VE table off which is why it may look the way it does yet your car still drives fine.

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

I am curious too

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Changing the VE does not affect commanded AFR.. it affects ACTUAL produced AFR.. which you can verify with a wide band against the commanded AFR to see how true your VE table really is.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

If I am in a open loop tune without a MAF, how else do you suggest we get the AFR to where we need it to be without messing with the VE table?? With the table you see here, my wideband and the averages on HPT are right in line with my commanded AFR.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

I understand how the commanded and actual afr work just not following how you say to smooth out the VE table without altering the ACTUAL afr when it is in line with the commanded.

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

Understood. But dont you want to see commanded and actual match hence movin the ve table until that is acheived?

I though the pe table was a multiplier of stioch. 14.7/1.13=13.00 commanded and then you try to get the WB to match this for actual via the ve table and the affected cells using the histogram

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

I agree with you Humpin, unless there is another method that none of us know about.

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Have you tried hitting the smooth button on that VE table just once? Reload the table with 1 decimal of precision, then hit Smooth.. try that.

Your WOT VE worries me. Its flat across the board, you might want a peak torque ridge.

When you look at your VE table.. picture a cursor going over the VE table as you experience various parts of driving conditions.. as it goes over very drastic conditions you may notice a slight hickup in the way the car responds. A smooth VE table will result in smooth transitions.

Also, its easy to tune the low rpm low kpa cells of the table as you are in them quite often, however high load low rpm you may barely hit.. so you will not get a lot of data in that range.. When you do hit those cells, adjust the surrounding cells as well (by a lesser margin) to keep things inline.

If you log one cell and only one cell and log 1000 frames.. and you need to add fuel, if you add +10 to that cell, add +5 to the surrounding cells.

Every time I change a cell I change the surrounding cells to a lesser degree.

I use the multiply by half % feature when I paste in my histograms to my VE table.

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

If I hit the smooth button, which I have tried several times, my ACTUAL AFR then changes to something other then what I have it commanded at. I am not using O2's here Keith and neither is Humpin. I dont' understand if the car calls for a certain % at 20 kpa and then a different % at 30 kpa, why would I change them to be smooth if that isn't what the motor wants??? I am not following how you are saying to smooth the ve table when that is actually what the car is calling for according to your software and a wideband.

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Yes.. but remember the PCM interpolates between cells.. so if you have a cell that is very drastic from the surronding cells, if you lower the drastic cell and increase the surrounding, you achieve almost the same result for that cell while smoothening out the transition between the before and after cells.

Exactly..