A cool feature of 2.0 HPT
Originally Posted by Magnus
Yes, you can load and save histograms..
Its in the program files/hp tuners/vcm suite 2/histograms.
You can save them to your desktop as well and then e-mail them.
Its in the program files/hp tuners/vcm suite 2/histograms.
You can save them to your desktop as well and then e-mail them.
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
yea, i know.. i was just hinting he should post it.. lol 
if these were 1 wire older O2s, you would be correct.
but they're modern HEATED O2s.... and when you use the recommended Bosch 13111 sensors, they even have a higher wattage element.... why the hotter element? because modern cars sometimes have O2s so far back, they're behind the cats!!! (lol just messin with ya.. lil sarcasm there..)
seriously though, they're heated O2 sensors, and you can WATCH them switch in the scanner..
if these were 1 wire older O2s, you would be correct.
but they're modern HEATED O2s.... and when you use the recommended Bosch 13111 sensors, they even have a higher wattage element.... why the hotter element? because modern cars sometimes have O2s so far back, they're behind the cats!!! (lol just messin with ya.. lil sarcasm there..)
seriously though, they're heated O2 sensors, and you can WATCH them switch in the scanner..
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
Theoretically you could, but doesn't the car have to be in closed loop to use the MAF? That right there would cause problems for me, because it would be getting feedback from narrow band O2 sensors that I know aren't working as they should, and I would be giving it feedback from my WB02 at the same time. There would be a conflict of interest of sorts...
The VE table would have to be spot on as well...and from what I've found, even that has to be a compromise. From what I've seen, part throttle/cruising needs to be tuned open loop to a multiplier of 1.0, but WOT needs to be tuned to what you are shooting for (which for me is 1.13). So you have to find a good middle ground and blend the results...there is some sort of calculation based on the commanded AFR that I don't fully understand.
The VE table would have to be spot on as well...and from what I've found, even that has to be a compromise. From what I've seen, part throttle/cruising needs to be tuned open loop to a multiplier of 1.0, but WOT needs to be tuned to what you are shooting for (which for me is 1.13). So you have to find a good middle ground and blend the results...there is some sort of calculation based on the commanded AFR that I don't fully understand.
switch to a bosch 13111 sensor and that problem goes away....
better heating element and works fine in the longtubes...
My LTFT's and my wideband both agree on 14.63...or close enough to not care(it does not always work that good in all cars...but its usually a ton better than the stock ones)
and again..unless you plan on leaving your car in permanent Open loop....your car is going to try to learn itself to 0 LTFT's anyways
learn about what the beast does naturally before you try to tame it
Damn...maybe I need to list my O2 sensors as part of my mods. Once again, I want proof of the higher wattage heater, in writing, from Bosch. I've heard enough hearsay on here about this, but I've never seen the proof...
And I fully know that the STFTs and LTFTs will trim the car, but it is getting this feedback from the narrowband O2 sensors, which I'm still convinced switch more slowly in headers than in manifolds.
FWIW, I run a closed loop SD tune...still trying to tame this beast.
And I fully know that the STFTs and LTFTs will trim the car, but it is getting this feedback from the narrowband O2 sensors, which I'm still convinced switch more slowly in headers than in manifolds.
FWIW, I run a closed loop SD tune...still trying to tame this beast.
Originally Posted by SideStep
This may have already been mentioned (Phoenix57) but...
Just like the way you tune your VE table using AFR% error could you not use a WB O2 sensor and the AFR% error (vs. commander AFR) to calibrate the MAF??? This would require a VERY accurate VE table I would think though... AND it may only be pertinent to steady state driving, when MAF and MAP are most likely to agree????
Just like the way you tune your VE table using AFR% error could you not use a WB O2 sensor and the AFR% error (vs. commander AFR) to calibrate the MAF??? This would require a VERY accurate VE table I would think though... AND it may only be pertinent to steady state driving, when MAF and MAP are most likely to agree????
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
yea, i know.. i was just hinting he should post it.. lol
if these were 1 wire older O2s, you would be correct.
but they're modern HEATED O2s.... and when you use the recommended Bosch 13111 sensors, they even have a higher wattage element.... why the hotter element? because modern cars sometimes have O2s so far back, they're behind the cats!!! (lol just messin with ya.. lil sarcasm there..)
seriously though, they're heated O2 sensors, and you can WATCH them switch in the scanner..
if these were 1 wire older O2s, you would be correct.
but they're modern HEATED O2s.... and when you use the recommended Bosch 13111 sensors, they even have a higher wattage element.... why the hotter element? because modern cars sometimes have O2s so far back, they're behind the cats!!! (lol just messin with ya.. lil sarcasm there..)
seriously though, they're heated O2 sensors, and you can WATCH them switch in the scanner..
Even though they are heated if a little tweaking isnt done to a few tables they will still switch slowly or throw codes. If you do a search for 13111 you will see there are still a few people who complain about them not fixing the problem
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Originally Posted by HumpinSS
Even though they are heated if a little tweaking isnt done to a few tables they will still switch slowly or throw codes. If you do a search for 13111 you will see there are still a few people who complain about them not fixing the problem
I love the idea of using wideband AFR% error to tune the beast...
but It only works if your o2's are really dead on...
which is why I rely on LTFT... cause most people have cars that run normally and will re learn itself back to what it wants anyways...
which is why I rely on putting it in its place and using the non changing items to maximize it potential
now if its a car that I can run in SD and Open loop....cause its a track only car...
then its all wideband tuning...
but It only works if your o2's are really dead on...
which is why I rely on LTFT... cause most people have cars that run normally and will re learn itself back to what it wants anyways...
which is why I rely on putting it in its place and using the non changing items to maximize it potential
now if its a car that I can run in SD and Open loop....cause its a track only car...
then its all wideband tuning...
Originally Posted by soundengineer
I love the idea of using wideband AFR% error to tune the beast...
but It only works if your o2's are really dead on...
but It only works if your o2's are really dead on...
which is why I rely on LTFT... cause most people have cars that run normally and will re learn itself back to what it wants anyways...
which is why I rely on putting it in its place and using the non changing items to maximize it potential
now if its a car that I can run in SD and Open loop....cause its a track only car...
then its all wideband tuning...
now if its a car that I can run in SD and Open loop....cause its a track only car...
then its all wideband tuning...
Full time SD here and the car drives back and forth to work with a G5x4 and I bet it gets better mileage than your NB car
Originally Posted by soundengineer
but It only works if your o2's are really dead on...
which is why I rely on LTFT...
which is why I rely on LTFT...
Originally Posted by SmokingWS6
In regards to MAF tuning by looking at the trims, you must fine tune you VE table in SD mode before attempting.
Originally Posted by torchredfrc
... soon 
I hear ya...luckily, 1.7 does everything I need. I just want the pretty graphics, and the compare feature would help me immensely...
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
And there are even issues tuning the VE table...from what I've seen, you can't tune the entire table to just one commanded AFR. I have part tuned to 1.0, the other tuned to 1.13.
This is correct. For some reason the AFR error witll be slightly off after dialing in the car to 13.0 then switching to 14.6528. I just set my whole OLFA table to 1.0 and called it a day
Originally Posted by HumpinSS
Full time SD here and the car drives back and forth to work with a G5x4 and I bet it gets better mileage than your NB car
I worked on a G5x4 cam, by the time I was finished your eyes wouldn't even burn after idling in a garage for 15mins. lol. I ran it in closed loop however.
Originally Posted by HumpinSS
that doesnt make sense to me can you clarify
I am convinced if you dial the car in with a WB your trims should be close when you go back to CL
Full time SD here and the car drives back and forth to work with a G5x4 and I bet it gets better mileage than your NB car
I am convinced if you dial the car in with a WB your trims should be close when you go back to CL
Full time SD here and the car drives back and forth to work with a G5x4 and I bet it gets better mileage than your NB car
and I like SD...but most people dont want to live in SD....mostly becaus ethey dont understand it(I do...and I like it...but I also like the MAF)when I change climates and altitude..teh Air Density changes...and teh MAF can read the air correctly...(well..sort of...but you know what I mean) In SD you are tuning for your location/altitude...you can go other places and it will run...but you will need to retune for optimum performance in other places(example: NHRA Pro Dragsters....retune every run...changes in Temperature/Altitude/Humidity)
for most people(not all) the MAF wil allow less tuning per location to keep it at 14.63 for normal daily driving
and close with wideband...yes..hell..dead on with WB.... but it still learns its trims off of the narrowband o2's.
Originally Posted by HumpinSS
This is correct. For some reason the AFR error witll be slightly off after dialing in the car to 13.0 then switching to 14.6528. I just set my whole OLFA table to 1.0 and called it a day
Anyhoo...any good tips on what I should mess with to make sure my O2 sensors are switching right? Hell, could you send me a .bin that has the adjustments that I could look at?