Anyone make traction control more useful with tuning?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
Anyone make traction control more useful with tuning? I've wanted to fine tune this feature for years. Now that I have the tuning software to do it, I'd like to start experimenting.
If anyone has had success making the traction control less intrusive and faster to return back to WOT, please share your secrets. Thanks!
If anyone has had success making the traction control less intrusive and faster to return back to WOT, please share your secrets. Thanks!
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
What I've found is, if you -increase- the spark
authority it has, it will more often succeed in
its traction-control "goal" without involving the
throttle relaxer or ABS. The throttle relaxer is
a killer for A4 cars because it will then upshift
you as it slides you across the TPS index. Of
course, you're over all that.
authority it has, it will more often succeed in
its traction-control "goal" without involving the
throttle relaxer or ABS. The throttle relaxer is
a killer for A4 cars because it will then upshift
you as it slides you across the TPS index. Of
course, you're over all that.
I've been using it on an M6 as a slip regulator..
changed the spark reductions to 0...
still modulates teh pedal....but doesnt dog it out cause of crappy timing curve...
same basic thing like when you let off the gas slightly to control tire spin..except the computer is doing it for you...
several of my buddies have seen better and more consistent track times with it done this way
changed the spark reductions to 0...
still modulates teh pedal....but doesnt dog it out cause of crappy timing curve...
same basic thing like when you let off the gas slightly to control tire spin..except the computer is doing it for you...
several of my buddies have seen better and more consistent track times with it done this way
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
Originally Posted by rooster433
I've thought about doing this also only by removing the mechical wheel and letting the timing do the job.
Spark is more "agile". The TCS applies spark, then
throttle, then ABS. If throttle isn't there then you
will get ABS apply as soon as timing fails to do the
job. Unfortunately it's stupid and not subtle, and
once you feel how it acts you won't want it (ABS
phase) again. To keep TCS active you have to
fool the PCM with a load that appears like the
servo motor on the pulley cluster, or just defeat
the cluster mechanically. I used a spare 12V motor.
But it was a waste of an experiment all in all, that
pass down the track with ABS fighting acceleration
just plain sucked (14s, anyone?).
You want to stay with spark and throttle. Trust me.
And I'm not that keen on throttle, at least on an
F-body.
throttle, then ABS. If throttle isn't there then you
will get ABS apply as soon as timing fails to do the
job. Unfortunately it's stupid and not subtle, and
once you feel how it acts you won't want it (ABS
phase) again. To keep TCS active you have to
fool the PCM with a load that appears like the
servo motor on the pulley cluster, or just defeat
the cluster mechanically. I used a spare 12V motor.
But it was a waste of an experiment all in all, that
pass down the track with ABS fighting acceleration
just plain sucked (14s, anyone?).
You want to stay with spark and throttle. Trust me.
And I'm not that keen on throttle, at least on an
F-body.
Tcs I posted this some time back and maybe someone has had the same problem that could chime in. One on my customers has a 99 T/A, bolt on's cam, M6. The problem is that when he tries to accelerate aggressively the TC light comes on and the car will run like crap, and have a very rough idle, when you hit the TC button to turn it off, the idle instantly smoothes out and the car cruises fine. This was occuring even before the cam install and has magnified since after the mods.
Trending Topics
Originally Posted by moehorsepower
I posted this some time back and maybe someone has had the same problem that could chime in. One on my customers has a 99 T/A, bolt on's cam, M6. The problem is that when he tries to accelerate aggressively the TC light comes on and the car will run like crap, and have a very rough idle, when you hit the TC button to turn it off, the idle instantly smoothes out and the car cruises fine. This was occuring even before the cam install and has magnified since after the mods.
thtas the spark retard...kicking in too agressively.....
which is why I went my route of just eliminating the spark and letting it go with pedal modulation.....but I can see jimys point in just giving the spark more autoroity for an A4
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I removed the timing tables, It will not dog nearly as much as it did with the amount of timing it use to pull. On my a4 tcs appears to be controled in stages, 1. timing 2. throttle reductions 3. upshifting.
If i have extremly minimal slip sometimes the low track light will illuminate but nothing will be done where as before with timing reductions it would dog.
I wish we had more options to control tcs. There's some software out there for other gm cars that allows you to edit the stages of tcs. Personally I would like to eliminate upshifting and edit the throttle relaxer tables. On street situations this may help more than it can hurt by having tcs on.
If i have extremly minimal slip sometimes the low track light will illuminate but nothing will be done where as before with timing reductions it would dog.
I wish we had more options to control tcs. There's some software out there for other gm cars that allows you to edit the stages of tcs. Personally I would like to eliminate upshifting and edit the throttle relaxer tables. On street situations this may help more than it can hurt by having tcs on.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
EFI Live has a table that I haven't seen on HP Tuners. It's called ECT pedal torque limit reduction. The table looks like this:
LABELS Torque Limit Nm
RPM -271 -217 -163 -108 -54 0 54 108 163 217 271 325 379 434 488
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
400 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
800 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1200 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1600 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2400 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3
2800 0 0 0 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 5 5 5 5
3200 0 1 1 1 3 4 4 5 5 6 7 7 8 8 8
3600 0 1 2 2 4 5 6 7 8 8 9 9 10 10 10
4000 0 2 3 3 5 6 8 8 9 10 11 12 13 13 13
4400 0 3 3 4 7 8 9 10 11 12 15 15 15 15 15
4800 0 7 7 7 8 10 11 13 14 16 17 17 17 17 17
5200 0 9 11 9 10 13 15 17 19 19 20 20 20 20 20
5600 0 100 100 46 29 20 22 28 28 28 29 31 32 32 32
6000 0 100 100 91 93 71 64 59 53 51 50 56 63 63 63
6400 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
6800 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
7200 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
7600 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
8000 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
Do you think messing with this table will affect the electronic throttle control? If so, do I make everything 0s or make everything 100s? My goal is to eliminate the throttle control and concentrate on controlling traction with spark reduction.
LABELS Torque Limit Nm
RPM -271 -217 -163 -108 -54 0 54 108 163 217 271 325 379 434 488
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
400 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
800 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1200 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1600 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2400 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3
2800 0 0 0 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 5 5 5 5
3200 0 1 1 1 3 4 4 5 5 6 7 7 8 8 8
3600 0 1 2 2 4 5 6 7 8 8 9 9 10 10 10
4000 0 2 3 3 5 6 8 8 9 10 11 12 13 13 13
4400 0 3 3 4 7 8 9 10 11 12 15 15 15 15 15
4800 0 7 7 7 8 10 11 13 14 16 17 17 17 17 17
5200 0 9 11 9 10 13 15 17 19 19 20 20 20 20 20
5600 0 100 100 46 29 20 22 28 28 28 29 31 32 32 32
6000 0 100 100 91 93 71 64 59 53 51 50 56 63 63 63
6400 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
6800 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
7200 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
7600 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
8000 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
Do you think messing with this table will affect the electronic throttle control? If so, do I make everything 0s or make everything 100s? My goal is to eliminate the throttle control and concentrate on controlling traction with spark reduction.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
spark retard
Originally Posted by soundengineer
thtas the spark retard...kicking in too agressively.....
which is why I went my route of just eliminating the spark and letting it go with pedal modulation.....but I can see jimys point in just giving the spark more autoroity for an A4
which is why I went my route of just eliminating the spark and letting it go with pedal modulation.....but I can see jimys point in just giving the spark more autoroity for an A4
I know from tuning for the past several years no two are alike, It is odd though that his buddy which is an 01 has the same mods and runs perfectly. I understand the timing being pulled under acceleratiion but why after he comes to a stop the car is idles like it it hitting on 5 cylinders, then as soon as you turn off the TC button the idle instantly smooths out..With the TC still activated it must still be (holding) the spark retard that it encountered during the acceleration process. My guess is that shutting off the TC is letting the PCM resume to set timing parameters ? Does this sound logical? I guess I will have to try and let all know of the results...
The ECT stuff I think only applies to 'vettes, trucks,
other vehicles with the factory electric throttle body.
The system on F-bodies is a kludge overlay (TCS
"brain" under the dash, 2->1 pulley cluster to put the
throttle relaxer and cruise control together, etc.).
In tuning a truck I found that the spark-cut torque
limiter made the truck run badly after hitting it, but
the ECT-action limiter (in the DFCO, traction control
area) was smooth on release. I speculate that the
spark cut makes something akin to misfire fouling in
the cylinder, just leaves a stain to be blown out while
throttle remains cleanly burning, just less of it.
Not to say there might not be some residual "tail"
to the spark meddling, through some PCM code
artifact or like that. But I haven't seen this sort of
thing on mine.
ECT (ETC?) vehicles operate a lot more crisply
than the throttle relaxer gizmo we're dealing with,
on F-bodies.
other vehicles with the factory electric throttle body.
The system on F-bodies is a kludge overlay (TCS
"brain" under the dash, 2->1 pulley cluster to put the
throttle relaxer and cruise control together, etc.).
In tuning a truck I found that the spark-cut torque
limiter made the truck run badly after hitting it, but
the ECT-action limiter (in the DFCO, traction control
area) was smooth on release. I speculate that the
spark cut makes something akin to misfire fouling in
the cylinder, just leaves a stain to be blown out while
throttle remains cleanly burning, just less of it.
Not to say there might not be some residual "tail"
to the spark meddling, through some PCM code
artifact or like that. But I haven't seen this sort of
thing on mine.
ECT (ETC?) vehicles operate a lot more crisply
than the throttle relaxer gizmo we're dealing with,
on F-bodies.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
I adjusted the ETC table to all 0s and you could still feel the throttle kicking back. Adjusted the table to all 100s and it seems to eliminate the throttle kick back, but the ABS kicks in.
Last thing I tried was putting all the stock spark retard back in place with the ETC table set at 100. That works pretty well until you get some bad wheel spin, then the car just dies. Don't know if that's the ABS kicking in or what. Might need to get more aggressive on the spark retard. I'm going to change the TC time limit from 4 seconds down to 1 and see what that does too.
Last thing I tried was putting all the stock spark retard back in place with the ETC table set at 100. That works pretty well until you get some bad wheel spin, then the car just dies. Don't know if that's the ABS kicking in or what. Might need to get more aggressive on the spark retard. I'm going to change the TC time limit from 4 seconds down to 1 and see what that does too.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
I just took my camaro out for a ride with the spark retard for the TC set to 0 and it was much better. The pedal backs off when you lose traction but you can push through it if you really want to...rather than bogging like crazy.
