Total timing WOT?
Total timing WOT? I have a quick question.
How much total timing at WOT is your stock internal LS1 ?
I have a Diablo Predator programmer,no custom tune,just regular performance stuff that comes with the hand held.
I am reading 30.9 degrees at WOT ,just seems high to me.No KR at all.
I also have a 150 Wet shot and am curious about the right timing setting for that too.
I would pull out the Diablo tune ,but i need it to help make my trans shift correctly(PT4000 stall and 3:42 gears).
Thanks
Dave
How much total timing at WOT is your stock internal LS1 ?
I have a Diablo Predator programmer,no custom tune,just regular performance stuff that comes with the hand held.
I am reading 30.9 degrees at WOT ,just seems high to me.No KR at all.
I also have a 150 Wet shot and am curious about the right timing setting for that too.
I would pull out the Diablo tune ,but i need it to help make my trans shift correctly(PT4000 stall and 3:42 gears).
Thanks
Dave
I run 30 degrees in the upper rpm's with no knock..
For the 150, personally I would pull 4-6 degrees and check/listen for any detonation.. then turn it up as much as you feel you need to..
I've seen many people run stock timing on a 150, it just depends on what year/variation the car is as to was timing it has
For the 150, personally I would pull 4-6 degrees and check/listen for any detonation.. then turn it up as much as you feel you need to..
I've seen many people run stock timing on a 150, it just depends on what year/variation the car is as to was timing it has
Keep in mind, most LS1 motors don't NEED that much timing. Heck, just last night I tuned a car that made exactly the same power with 28, 29, or 30 degrees of ignition timing -- so I set it to 28.
Thanks for the info.
I am losing power, and my mph at the track has gone way down this year after i swapped convertors and gears.
So i am looking for any valid reason for the loss of power,i say loss of power because i can feel it just nose over at the high rpms.
On the highway, pulling top of 3rd is just alot of noise,really feels like it is not pulling as much any more.
I swapped a SS4000 stall for a PT4000 ,(both are Yank's)
The SS4000 ran 87 in the 1/8th and the PT4000 could only pull 84-85 in better weather.
I want to get the car tuned , with a shift point of 6200 . But the motor just lays down after 5500 and stops pulling.
Big problem with a vertor that has a 5400 rpm shift extension.
I thought valve springs,then saw the timing is 30.9 and now i wonder about tuning.
Hooker LT's,no cats,Y-pipe,Borla,stall,gears,lid,K&N,NGK TR6's all bolt on stuff,nothing internal changed. Deleted EGR,a.i.r system,air pump and all.
Need to delete a few codes to shut off the ses light.
No trouble codes stored except for the egr and air pump circuits.
Car really seems like it is straining just to get past 5500,if that makes sense.
Anyone around my area that has tuning abilities with any info?
I would throw the Diablo Predator out the window if i could get the pcm tuned for what i have done .
Nothing wrong with Predator,just can't help me anymore. i think i need a real tune done.
Dave
I am losing power, and my mph at the track has gone way down this year after i swapped convertors and gears.
So i am looking for any valid reason for the loss of power,i say loss of power because i can feel it just nose over at the high rpms.
On the highway, pulling top of 3rd is just alot of noise,really feels like it is not pulling as much any more.
I swapped a SS4000 stall for a PT4000 ,(both are Yank's)
The SS4000 ran 87 in the 1/8th and the PT4000 could only pull 84-85 in better weather.
I want to get the car tuned , with a shift point of 6200 . But the motor just lays down after 5500 and stops pulling.
Big problem with a vertor that has a 5400 rpm shift extension.
I thought valve springs,then saw the timing is 30.9 and now i wonder about tuning.
Hooker LT's,no cats,Y-pipe,Borla,stall,gears,lid,K&N,NGK TR6's all bolt on stuff,nothing internal changed. Deleted EGR,a.i.r system,air pump and all.
Need to delete a few codes to shut off the ses light.
No trouble codes stored except for the egr and air pump circuits.
Car really seems like it is straining just to get past 5500,if that makes sense.
Anyone around my area that has tuning abilities with any info?
I would throw the Diablo Predator out the window if i could get the pcm tuned for what i have done .
Nothing wrong with Predator,just can't help me anymore. i think i need a real tune done.
Dave
Last edited by redsscamaroboy; Nov 23, 2005 at 09:47 AM. Reason: spelling
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 848
Likes: 0
From: Tree-Hugging, Bug eating CALI'
I have just got my car tuned, here in Sacramento. I gotta say I love it now. Before, with a Predator tune, I was getting pinging with 23* timing, in 60* temps. I was told the spark tables, and what not, were way off from what LS1s like, but, I can not blame Diablosport. I do not know if I was not importing custom tuning into and out of my Predator correctly, but, I do know, that I wasn' t having pinging issues until spring of this year, after some additional custom tunes they had done for me. AGAIN, I am not implying they don' t know what they are doing, as I probably screwed up the data transfer, from getting the custom tune from the website, into the computer, onto the Predator, and then into the car. I don' t know. I can say I feel it is probably pretty difficult to tune a specific car, without any having that car there, on a dyno, with a wideband and what-not, and get a good safe tune. I know after my dyno tune, I have read almost 27* and no pinging. The car runs and sounds better, and doesn' t smell and smoke as bad. If you have much more than a lid and CB, it is probably best to get a complete custom dyno tune, and use the Predator for smaller followup changes.
Trending Topics
TECH Addict
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,028
Likes: 0
From: sojourning....looking for my city whose builder and maker is God.
I have averaged about a 20 HP gain going from 28 degrees to 29 or 30, but either no gain or loss going up to 31 degrees. For most of the cars I have tuned 29 degrees have been the sweet spot with a few liking 30 degrees. This is N/A, you need go less with nitrous.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo Thanks for all the posts and info,i am pulling out my hair looking for more power without changing tons of parts.
I have run my car with this set-up for 60,000 miles and just with this vertor have started to have issues with power and or power band.
I have sprayed this car with a 150 wet shot for about 40,000,before that it was a 100 shot dry kit NOS 5177.
I have never had issues with KR,but with this last vertor swap i am now in a rpm range that this thing is not making power.Tuning or wear,i don't know YET.
But plenty of stock internal LS1's are running even higher rpm stalls and getting there quickest times and highest mph(well over and quicker than mine)
i have a vertor that is loose enough for N/A runs and will "work" with my Nitrous set-up.
I have run this for years and now am getting more serious about track times and tuning all this stuff in to work more efficiently.
I know my Stock Internal LS1 can/will run mid 11's and pull out some mid 10 second nitrous times before i plunge into the internals.
Dave
I have run my car with this set-up for 60,000 miles and just with this vertor have started to have issues with power and or power band.
I have sprayed this car with a 150 wet shot for about 40,000,before that it was a 100 shot dry kit NOS 5177.
I have never had issues with KR,but with this last vertor swap i am now in a rpm range that this thing is not making power.Tuning or wear,i don't know YET.
But plenty of stock internal LS1's are running even higher rpm stalls and getting there quickest times and highest mph(well over and quicker than mine)
i have a vertor that is loose enough for N/A runs and will "work" with my Nitrous set-up.
I have run this for years and now am getting more serious about track times and tuning all this stuff in to work more efficiently.
I know my Stock Internal LS1 can/will run mid 11's and pull out some mid 10 second nitrous times before i plunge into the internals.
Dave
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
From: Australia
I have no idea how you can be pulling off 28-30* timing on a stock LS1 using pump gas. =Either MY fuel is absolutely crap or your air is better. About 20* is as much as my LS1 will take tuned to 12.7-13.0AFR.
Originally Posted by redsscamaroboy
I have a quick question.
How much total timing at WOT is your stock internal LS1 ?
I have a Diablo Predator programmer,no custom tune,just regular performance stuff that comes with the hand held.
I am reading 30.9 degrees at WOT ,just seems high to me.No KR at all.
I also have a 150 Wet shot and am curious about the right timing setting for that too.
I would pull out the Diablo tune ,but i need it to help make my trans shift correctly(PT4000 stall and 3:42 gears).
Thanks
Dave
How much total timing at WOT is your stock internal LS1 ?
I have a Diablo Predator programmer,no custom tune,just regular performance stuff that comes with the hand held.
I am reading 30.9 degrees at WOT ,just seems high to me.No KR at all.
I also have a 150 Wet shot and am curious about the right timing setting for that too.
I would pull out the Diablo tune ,but i need it to help make my trans shift correctly(PT4000 stall and 3:42 gears).
Thanks
Dave
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by gojo
You can't assume that because you don't get knock it's helping. My optimal timing on the dyno is 26*. Over that there is no knock, on my car, but no gain either. You should want to keep it at the optimal power point so that at very hot temps you will not risk knock.
TECH Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by MNR-0
I have no idea how you can be pulling off 28-30* timing on a stock LS1 using pump gas. =Either MY fuel is absolutely crap or your air is better. About 20* is as much as my LS1 will take tuned to 12.7-13.0AFR.
Are you sure it's not false knock ? Try debugging it by adding octane booster, like 20-30% Toluene, to gas and see if you still get knock
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by MNR-0
I have no idea how you can be pulling off 28-30* timing on a stock LS1 using pump gas. =Either MY fuel is absolutely crap or your air is better. About 20* is as much as my LS1 will take tuned to 12.7-13.0AFR.
What octane do you use? Also, what method is used in Australia to determine octane? I run 26-28 in the high rpms and 29-30 in the low rpms, at WOT...
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Ethanol is new to Australia. Ive tried it once and it is certainly is more knock resistant. For example, experimented with E10 one day and logged a run to find out I was at WOT the whole QTR with an AFR of 14:1 
but got maybe 0.3* knock and reeled off a 12.5@109 just bolt-ons + converter in 80*F temps.
Ive used octane bosters and they help - allowing me to add 2-3* more timing but thats it. 19* is common for stockers in Sydney and anywhere from 20-22* in Melbourne. Note that best time was 12.2@112MPH with just 19* timing in 55*F temps.
We use a RON rating. I understand you use a MON rating, which is 5 points lower on average but promotes better fuel quality control as its measured in the engine - not in a lab.
Fuel stations are now beginning to sell 100RON fuels with 5% ehtanol as a power adder. Ethanol, however, leans the car out considerably over 100% dino fuel. So it might mean a retune for many of us here in OZ. But the gains are there. For example, a Holden SV8 with a 10PSI PWR Eaton M112 blower ran a 10s pass the other day - street trim apart from tyres - running on E10 fuel.
but got maybe 0.3* knock and reeled off a 12.5@109 just bolt-ons + converter in 80*F temps.Ive used octane bosters and they help - allowing me to add 2-3* more timing but thats it. 19* is common for stockers in Sydney and anywhere from 20-22* in Melbourne. Note that best time was 12.2@112MPH with just 19* timing in 55*F temps.
We use a RON rating. I understand you use a MON rating, which is 5 points lower on average but promotes better fuel quality control as its measured in the engine - not in a lab.
Fuel stations are now beginning to sell 100RON fuels with 5% ehtanol as a power adder. Ethanol, however, leans the car out considerably over 100% dino fuel. So it might mean a retune for many of us here in OZ. But the gains are there. For example, a Holden SV8 with a 10PSI PWR Eaton M112 blower ran a 10s pass the other day - street trim apart from tyres - running on E10 fuel.
Originally Posted by gojo
You can't assume that because you don't get knock it's helping. My optimal timing on the dyno is 26*. Over that there is no knock, on my car, but no gain either. You should want to keep it at the optimal power point so that at very hot temps you will not risk knock.
I noticed my timing at WOT is /stays at 30.9 degrees.
And was wondering if that is part of the issue.
I did not have this trouble until i replaced my vertor and now i am in a rpm range that is not making power,just trying to figure out why.
This vertor is about 1000 rpm higher driving in traffic than my old 4000 stall,same stall speed(4000). But this 1 is much looser driving.
Now i need to dial in some power in the high rpm and start getting much quicker/faster times at the track.
P.S. I have the same vertor as listed in your sig,switched from the SS4000.
Thanks.
Dave
