JS

iTrader: (4)

Okay here ya go...

I launched the car at 2500 rpm and had 3.0KR,
Then it starting dropping 2.8,2.6,2.2,1.9 as the rpm went up and went to ZERO KR at the top of my 1st shift point and then stayed .06,.05,.04 etc threw my next shift point.02's ranged from 915/890 from 2500 to 4000 and as the car started to lean down to 890/880,880/870,870/865 the KR dropped again as the rpm went up and it was just about gone at my 1st shift point..0.9,.07,.05,.04 KR etc into my next shift piont and again as the 02's dropped the KR dropped

I usually see 30 Degrees of timing but last night it varied as the KR it.I saw 27.5 to 29 until the KR was gone and I was back to 30 from 5500 to the traps

I have NO MAFT on the car.
IMO it looks like the car does not like to be rich on the bottem..I think it wants to be leaned down abit?

I figure I will add a MAFT and put it 1 click lean on the base which will effect WOT,Then add perhaps 1 or 2 clicks rich on the Wot setting to make sure it doesnt lean out to much on the top?

Sound about right guys?
How much HP do u think I'm losing with 3.0 to .05 degrees of KR showing up from say 3000 to 5500rpm?


JS

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Maybe its false knock?

If so, look HERE!

Tony

Crazyquik

Very odd...how did it run? Low 11.5s?

JS

iTrader: (4)

Yep 11.54@116.68
Thats the 2nd quickest pass I ever ran...

I will add some 100 unleaded to see if its false KR


JS

LS1UltraZ

iTrader: (3)

Generally, 4.0 degrees and below of KR has a almost zero effect on power. If if does go from 3 degrees or so down to 0 i wouldnt worry about it.. its most likely false. Besides your timing looks strong.. wouldnt worry about it.

Sean

Kenny H

Is it possible Joel is launching hard causing a bit of chassis flex, maybe part of his exhaust is hitting his floor at low RPMs and causing false KR? That could explain why it goes away after the launch?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

JS,

For your car to instantly have kr, then back off, I suspect false knock. Check motor and trans mounts and look very carefully at your exhaust. Tony's knockout box will help you in this area. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

JS

iTrader: (4)

Still running JPR S1/TR Cam
Carteks setup goes on my car in 4 weks or so...

JS

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

[quote]Generally, 4.0 degrees and below of KR has a almost zero effect on power<hr></blockquote>

Sorry, I strongly disagree. It depends on where you are referencing your total timing. My car makes max power at 28+ degrees and if I have more than 3 degress KR from that reference, I am usually down about 11 rwhp across the board on the dynojet. This has been proven many times, on many cars. Now, if your car is at 30+ degrees and you get -3 KR and end up with 27, then no, you probably won't lose much. I've not seen any gains above 28 degrees.

Tony

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

JS, what heads/cam setup are you running now and days?

blackhawk2000

I agree with Tony. I can feel and hear my car fall on it's face when I get KR.

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

I don't think timing matters much on some combos. I took 5-6 degrees out of mine and picked up power. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

Anyway JS, maybe its time to put that old cam back in? It sounds like the TR cam just slowed you down.

JS

iTrader: (4)

Actually Terry I think the TR is a better cam.
Reason being it makes MUCH more TQ.

I went 11.54@116.68
Thats the 2nd fastest/quickest pass I ever ran with my car...I will get the KR situation worked out and I expect it to run 11.45@117+ which would be about right for the cam swap..

Remember I went 11.52 w/A -550 DA
This 11.54 pass it was -200 DA w/KR

My 11.36 was w/Joe Driving my car..

JS

McRat

[quote]Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>McRat, remember these PCM's "learn" knock. To get a true test you'd have to reset the PCM, run 91 octane, reset the PCM, then run the higher octane.

On my higher CR setup, I found I made more power with less timing, even though I was not getting any knock retard.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The procedure I followed was:
Drive 100 mi with 91. Dyno with 91, drive to the gas station, fill up on 100 (>75% race gas in tank), drive 15 mi including numerous WOT blasts, then redyno. Water temp was the same. The race gas did eliminate the KR. Just didn't increase HP. Timing changed, KR changed, but HP didn't.

I've been through the "PCM Learn" thang about a dozen times testing GMAF's and MicroTuners. PCM Learn has very little to do with WOT peak HP on a dyno. It just doesn't change whether you learn or not. It does change "SOTP" and throttle response.

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

[quote]
I've been through the "PCM Learn" thang about a dozen times testing GMAF's and MicroTuners. PCM Learn has very little to do with WOT peak HP on a dyno. It just doesn't change whether you learn or not. It does change "SOTP" and throttle response.
<hr></blockquote>

It might not change much on a stock engine, but I know it changes a lot with heads/cam cars. The test for knowing if your PCM is programmed properly is if you can reset the PCM after having driven around for a bit and get the same numbers as before you reset.

Why not throw a little cam in there and do some real testing? <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

JS

iTrader: (4)

Terry 11.54 to 11.45 is almost a tenth..
Thats a good improvement IMO.

But I havent got the results yet so u r correct in the asumption.Smaller cam MIGHT BE AS GOOD..

Doesnt really matter,My Cartek S2 Heads,Ported LS6 Intake and Custom Grind Cam is going in soooon <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

JS

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

JS, we're talking such small differences here, I don't see how you can rationalize them. I mean .02th could be due to a 1mph headwind or something. Admit it, the old cam was much better. Going from a 216/216/114 to a 224/224/112 and gaining less than a .1th seems like a waste to me!

McRat

I did testing of Race Gas vs. 91 Octane while dyno'g. KR showed up on the 91 Octane. Thought was that Race Gas would increase HP by eliminating KR.

HP remained the same whether KR came on or not. Small (2.9°?) amounts of KR don't show on a dyno on stock 2000 engines, IMO. My "bone stock" dyno'g showed the same situation. One dyno run showed KR and another didn't, yet yielded the same power ±1 hp.

Interesting to note, that KR at the track on my car goes down as a function of speed. At the track, I'll get KR in 1st and second only. On a dyno, it'll get some in fourth.

Disclaimer:
Modified engines with modified spark/fuel tables could be alot different.

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

McRat, remember these PCM's "learn" knock. To get a true test you'd have to reset the PCM, run 91 octane, reset the PCM, then run the higher octane.

On my higher CR setup, I found I made more power with less timing, even though I was not getting any knock retard.